School shooting in Kentucky

All my guns have killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car. I own expensive hole punches not people killing machines.

As you have admitted, you were involved in a crime with a gun. By any chance, were you killed? You demonize the tool but there MUST be a human element involved wielding the tool. They have the choice of life or death, the gun and bullets are just along for the ride.


[Edited on Mar 23, 2005 by Guildenstern]

hehe , no i was shot at , but the only thing that got killed was a big ass window . I agree with everything you say but even you must admit that the amount of gun deaths in your country must in some way be down to the fact that a larger percentage of the population own guns and that they are available to buy legally.

BTW what kind of paper do you use over there , cause my regular hole punch seems to do the trick

I love that we're all discussing how this is a gun issue and meanwhile the denver papers are looking at this thing properly, linking his love of zombie movies, trench coats, hitler, and hatred of inter-racial relationships to his shootings(there's a hint of sarcasm in that statement, see if you can find it). I fucking hate how our local news media always feel the need to find the "colorado connection" and to milk columbine for everything it's fucking worth. Gar! I fucking hate people

Yup. And the fact that your gun crime is *rising* shows that gun laws do little if any good, and are most likely counterproductive. Police (most of which can't carry guns there either) aren't always around. I'm surprised that crime isn't even more rampant given that non-criminals can't own weapons, nor can police. Do you really want *only* criminals to own weapons? I don't.

A town somewhere in the south (I believe either Virginia or one of the Carolinas) enacted a law that *required* each family and/or household to own at least one firearm. Guess what happened to crime? It went down significantly (I'm thinking about 70%) in the first year or two. Would you rob or attack someone (in their home, at least) if you *know* they have at least one firearm? I'd head to California or New England if I were a criminal.

Criminals love it when guns are banned, because they can still get them, while law-abiding citizens can't.

Similar things have happened in states that have recently allowed citizens to carry concealed weapons with a license; crime has decreased.

You're more likely to be burglarized in the UK than in the US according to a BBC article I read because noone there is afraid to break into a house knowing they won't be shot, or anything else for that matter. From what I've heard from some Brits I've spoken to the that the most potent self-defense measure you can legally own is a spray/bullhorn that makes a loud noise and makes the victim smell bad. I'll take a firearm over offending a criminal's sense of smell any day, thanks.

Don't think that it's only us crazy 'muricans that feel this way:

"That rifle on the wall of the labourer’s cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-George Orwell

"The certainty that a potential victim is unarmed is an encouragement to armed criminals. Less guns, more crime."
-John Derbyshire (A British expat)

I think this quote says it all:

"Gun control? It’s the best thing you can do for crooks and gangsters. I want you to have nothing. If I’m a bad guy, I’m always gonna have a gun. Safety locks? You’ll pull the trigger with a lock on, and I’ll pull the trigger. We’ll see who wins."

-- Sammy "The Bull" Gravano, Mafia hit man

Damn even friggin' *Ghandi* has uttered what sounds like a pro-gun rights quote:

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."

-- Mahatma Gandhi (Autobiography, by M.K. Gandhi, p.446)

As far as automatic vs semi-automatic, automatic means that a firearm will continue firing rounds as long as the trigger is held down and it has a supply of ammo.

Semi-auto means that one shot is fired each time the trigger is pulled. Semi-auto pistols are often called autos or automatic, but this isn't technically correct except that they are "auto-loaders".

A miniscule amount of pressure has nothing to do with the difference. I take it you've never even touched a gun, much less fired it and have no clue what it's like. For each shot with a semi-auto, your finger has to pull the trigger all the way back against anywhere from 2 to 15 pounds of pressure and a length of about half an inch to an inch. Then you have to move the trigger finger back out and do it all over again. This all depends on the weapon and whether it's single or double action, which I won't get into here.

I have fired both automatic and semi-automatic weapons and the amount of force has nothing to do with the difference.

Well, a love of Hitler could definately lead one to violence (see Europe 1939-1945) , but zombie movies and trenchcoats have nothing to do with it. For the inter-racial thing, I guess that depends on how much he hates them. I'm about the biggest zombie nut ever and, while I'd happily kill zombies, I have no desire to kill any living thing (this is why I don't hunt) unless necessary for self-defense or food (I'm not talking about humans there).

And this isn't a gun issue either; this is a crazy kid issue and, to a lesser extent, a cop who should be more careful about who gets his hands on his weapon issue.

hehe , no i was shot at , but the only thing that got killed was a big ass window . I agree with everything you say but even you must admit that the amount of gun deaths in your country must in some way be down to the fact that a larger percentage of the population own guns and that they are available to buy legally.

BTW what kind of paper do you use over there , cause my regular hole punch seems to do the trick

Yeah, but I bet it doesn't work up to about 30 yards.

hehe , no i was shot at , but the only thing that got killed was a big ass window . I agree with everything you say but even you must admit that the amount of gun deaths in your country must in some way be down to the fact that a larger percentage of the population own guns and that they are available to buy legally.

BTW what kind of paper do you use over there , cause my regular hole punch seems to do the trick

Yeah, but I bet it doesn't work up to about 30 yards.


yeah you guys really need to get closer to your paper

When I was a kid, my father, a former Marine who served his country, had a lot of guns. He would take me to the range where we would shoot targets and cans. He showed me the proper and safe use of firearms, and afterwards I would help him clean them and put them away in a very formidable safe. Recently he called me up to go to a gun show with him. We had a nice afternoon together, looking at and talking about firearms and firearms history. He is very proud of his service in the Marine Corps. Then we had lunch together.

Many of my friends/co-workers are hunters, they all want me to hunt with them next season, and I will. They talk about their hunting adventures and experiences with friends. There is a lot of comradery involved with these people. There stories are always bright and filled with laughter. They share the meat that comes from the deer they hunt. I have eaten elk before and venison prepared many different ways.

Other friends own firearms because we have the right to...for protection from criminals, or they just like to shoot guns at the range, which is a lot of fun.

It's hard for me to see the rational behind calling these people, and myself, psycho or anything else negative. In fact, the people that I know that own/use guns are the most responsible, law-abiding, friendly, and solid individuals I have ever met.

Perhaps your comment was directed solely at criminals and those that glorify the illegal use of firearms, such as some musicians/record labels. Please don't lump all firearms owners/users together with the criminal elements in society, it's simply false.

What happened is very sad. His family probably could have done a better job. Perhaps this boy did not have the kind of education described above, or his access to guns was not restricted...he used his Grandfathers squad car, gun and vest after all. Life and culture on a reservation is different than most of us are used to, as are the laws.



[Edited on Mar 24, 2005 by impetus]

But...but I don't understtand. How could you possibly have been the victim of gun violence if you live in a country which outlaws them? *sarcasm*

You seem to be in better with the staff than myself, so doing that would be counter-productive.

Admitting I was quite off with the tone of my posts yesterday, I'll apologize for being a dick. But the point I'm going to continue coming back to is this:

This thread has a topic. A valid topic. So you can all feel free to post "however the fuck" you want, but since the larger issue of gun control has its place on the board, so does this topic. That's why I'm also going to post however the fuck I want and call people out on being off-topic. I don't understand why it's so ultimately necessary to rant and rave on gun control and skip over the topic of this thread almost entirely.

And while this goes for me too, Cash, you need to chill out.

so your objection to what i said is that you have a different percepion of what miniscule means in relation to firing guns.
And by the way, I have fired a gun before, a shotgun.

Thick telephone books.

Gun statistics rarely reflect lives or property saved. You got shot at, I have been shot in the neck. I was at the scene of a three car pile-up and the driver of one of the cars took offense at one of the drivers and brandished a bat. I have a CCW, drew my firearm and gave the man the option to go back to his vehicle or I would shoot him for endangering the lives of the other EMS personnel on the scene. First rule of EMSing is secure the scene, which I was doing. He backed down and the cops dealt with him later. In that non-statistically recorded instance, a potentially life threatening assault with a baseball bat was averted by brandishing a gun. Basic law of escalation – don’t bring a bat to a gun fight, don’t tug on Superman’s cape and don’t spit into the wind.

Does access to guns raise crime rates? Can’t say they don’t and can’t say they do. The answer is not a simple black and white. Compare the US to say Iceland. Iceland has less firearm restrictions and I hear their citizens are issued take-home automatic weapons as part of forced conscription. Pretty low murder and burglary rates in Iceland. On the surface I would use Iceland as an example to say access is not proportional to crime but by doing that I would be ignoring the difference in climate, social programs and incentives not to commit crime. The worst thing I heard someone say, I have to admit that there is some truth, is that he sees Welfare as a payment to the poor not to rob him. A payment he was willing to make. Maybe we are not paying enough to welfare?


[Edited on Mar 24, 2005 by Guildenstern]