NEWS: Rumsfeld Faces Possible Arrest if He Visits Germany

Sounds like a fair deal to me.

Right after they cancel Kissinger's citizenship and hand him over to the Chileans, Cambodians and Indonesians.

Interestingly, Kissinger hasn't been doing much, if any, travelling of late.

Word on the street is that Pinochet's arrest put a little " there, but for the grace of God go I" into him.

That's kind of funny. But I'd have rathered that Abu Ghraib never happened.

Ummm, you dump them in a cage on a base in Cuba and tell the rest of the world to go fuck itself when they ask questions.



Seriously though, he has nothing to worry about, he has diplomatic immunity. Sharon (Israeli government head)
has an outstanding warrent for his arrest from the UN for warcrimes in Lebanon whgich nobody has acted upon, while Shamier (an ex Israeli PM - sorry about the spelling) went to the UK when there was a outstanding warrent for his arrest for the murder of 2 Brit soldiers in Pallestine in 48 when he was a terrorist. Only Belgium ignores diplomatic immunity, which is why those two have never gone there.

As I recall, there were like signed letters from Rumsfeld explicitely condoning and encouraging the actions at Abu Gharib, as well as his explanations as to why international law did not apply to American soldiers.

To my knowledge, this has not been refuted, but like the CIA complaining that the Bush administration was trying to force them to come up with nonexistant evidence that Iraq was a threat with terrorist links and WMDs before the war, this news has simply dissapeared from the thoughts of the nation's populace.

Put Rumsfeld in an Abu Gharaib cell with prison rations for a month....

Yeah, going after high ranking officials in other countries is just wrong, whether you agree with their policies or not!!! *Waits for it...*

In any case there isn't a warrant out for him yet, the prosecutors haven't even considered it. If it stopped Rumsfeld from entering the country that would be an interesting victory all on its own. It would not be, by the way, an act of war. There is not a chance in hell that the United States would invade a Euoropean country. What IS likely is that Rumsfeld would have a short stay after a mysterious jail break let him walk free.

A US based company filing suit againsts an American in a German court?

Stupid.

this is why i actually like Rumsfeld... he put his neck out there for something he was obviously not directly accountable for... anyways, it's not like the secretary of defense can publicaly disagree with the president... that's why there is that badass oval office...


[Edited on Feb 04, 2005 by unfound]

I am so amazed at what a child you are.

Wow, honestly--does anybody else hear him saying that shink in the "comic book store guy" voice like I hear it?

"Woah woah woah...we dont arrest our assholes here"

Sweet, quite the think tank we've got here tonight.

Holding unelected officials of the government accountable for war crimes is treason--freakin' genius!

Ass whuppin indeed! Better yet a lynching!

I for one am sick as Hell of people saying things like this which envelope "All Americans", or "America". It's an ignorant generalization. Like saying that the French all smell badly or that the British all have huge noses, or that Australians all carry boomerangs and wrestle crocodiles. (Sorry friends, they're only similar examples.)

Certainly not everyone here is innocent. But not everyone is guilty either. That is the way of the world. THE WHOLE WORLD. So quit saying things that are designed to make us all look like assholes. We're not. I'm sure there are assholes in the Netherlands just like there are SOME here. And I'm sure that if you use more presumptuous generalizations about 295 million people whom you've never met, you'll prove me right.

I'm American. Prosecute me for war crimes. Seriously. Give it a go. Prosecute me because of where I was born. Would you like the addresses you'll need to put it into motion? Or would you prefer to reconsider that blanket statement?

Back to topic. Yes, to the best of my knowledge, it is proven that Hussein has ordered atrocities. Yes, he is supposed to be tried for it. No, WMD's were not found. But if it ousted him, then it was a pretty good excuse to go.

Yes, the things that people have done to prisoners who were supposed to be guarded (protected? I'd think so) by US (and other nation's) soldiers were uncalled for and they were nearly unfathomable in these times by such supposedly civilized members of society. Was Rumsfeld there and participating? Obviously not. Did he give orders to commit those acts? It is speculative on my part but I would have to state that I find it highly doubtful. Did he know about it? Who really knows. If so then I hope that either he had something to do with uncovering it from behind the scenes or that he at least ordered it to stop. Again, pure speculation. Does the fact that he was in his position during the time that it happened make him a criminal? How could it unless he covered it up?

If you're a bus driver and someone in the back of the bus sells crack to an undercover cop in the seat next to him, are you guilty of dealing crack because you're in charge of that bus?

Edit: Sorry about my rant up top, but it really gets on my nerves when people say shit about me because of my nationality. People who've never met me and would under most circumstances consider myself, my family, and my friends to be pretty decent people if they actually knew us.

And yes, blanket statements are quite personal to the people in which they envelope.

If someone means specific Americans, than they should say so.

[Edited on Feb 04, 2005 9:57PM]

It would be funny if they arrested AND unmasked Rumsfeld to reveal the eveil robot from the future that he really is.

Rumsfeld isnt going to be arrested. Does noone else know that whenever a high-up politician from the US travels to Europe, someone, somewhere files for warcrimes charges and tries to get them arrested? Im really surprised by some peoples comments about how much they'd kick Germanies ass and all that shit if it happend. Get a grip. It's not going to happen.

Yeah. It's tragic. Anti-americanism is fuckin' wild there, i hear. A cannuk friend of mine gor a free beer at a bar for not being american.

it kinda stings, huh?

Except that Germany doesn't consider Rumsfeld a war criminal. A new York based orginization does and they filed the complaint through Germany because of its laws which allow it to prosecute war crimes anywhere anytime.

Funny...i'm in Taiwan right now and last night got bought two beer for BEING American and everyone was very friendly to me. Not that it has anything to do with Germany, but not everybody hates us.

The US doesn't even except the international tribunal in Den Haag! They alright worked out a plan to get out any american. And if I remeber it right it was Rumsfelds company delivering the poison gas to irak for the first gulfwar(Irak vs. Iran). I'm not 100% if it was Rumsfeld, but to 90%.
So if the don't run amok for this why should anyone care about that prison thing. And I'm sure Germany would be the last to do anything... not the red/green goverment, not during such econmic problem. Caused enough trouble not going to Irak. But Germany is still the European NATO member with the most troops in oversea. In all the places left and forgotten by the US....
Maybe the show up again on the next party(US vs. Iran)???

It's just a form of protest by them. The odds that they'd act on it are more than likely very small. And even if they did it's not as if the U.S. would go to war over them. And someone said earlier if we dismantled our bases the German economy would collapse. What comic books you been reading? Germany is not dependant upon the U.S. for anything except maybe oil which they can get elsewhere. Some of the cities may be dependant on the local bases and would certainly be hurt but the country would not "collapse." And the idea of armed conflict with Germany is even more far fetched. Given the rest of Europe's rather low opinion of us at the moment I'm sure they'd side wtih the Fatherland anyways.

Now then on to Abu Graib. I for the life of me do not understand why everyone gets into such a hissy fit over a few demeaning photos and some relative discomfort. Hell you experience discomfort in basic training. Can people honestly say these prisoners were "tortured" in the mindset of medieval methods and the infamous Unit 731 of World War 2?

You would be a farce for filing a suit without the arguments to back it up.
I don't think Germany would ever even start to think to do such thing if they didn't have all the arguments to back it up.

Evidence of WMDs? Uh...not so much, no.
Rumsfeld may or may not be directly responsible for Abu Ghraib, but given his position, he had to have either not known about it, known about it, but not stopped it (or punished the people involved, if he became aware after the fact), or been directly involved. None of which are particularly acceptable. You don't need to know every detail of what's happening under your aegis, but something like Abu Ghraib...
I've been to Germany twice in the last year and a half. Anti-americanism is so fucking wild that everyone I met was perfectly friendly and helpful. I think most people realize that our government and individual Americans are very different things. And, in the same vein, the comment about America having committed war crimes...I, for one, thought it was very clear that this was referring to our government.

Free beer?

I'm packing my bags as we speak!

*Arnold Voice* "This isn't a productive area of discussion."