Quote from Iraq Veteran

"A few days later a group of Humvees from another unit passed by one of our machine gun positions, and they had the bodies of two dead Iraqis strapped to their hoods like a couple of deer. One of the bodies had exposed brain matter that had begun to cook onto the hood of the vehicle; it was a gruesome, medieval display. So much of what I experienced seemed out of contol, I saw so little respect for the living and almost none for the dead, and there was almost no accountability."

Jim Talib Navy Corpsman assigned to 1st Marine Expeditionary Force.

source

oh forget it. outrage fatigue syndrome doesn't just affect liberals, apparently

[Edited on Jan 28, 2005 by Koenigsegg]

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/berg_killing.wmv

Because one dick move ALWAYS justifies another.

Good call!

By that logic, any Iraqi who saw that humvee would be justified in killing the soldiers driving it.

because the guys who were strapped to the front of it must have been innocent, upstanding citizens

And that makes it ok.

Stockulogic™

I don't know. But I guarantee they didn't kill Nick Berg.

Just wondering why people are so quick to condemn our military but dont really give a fuck what the terrorists do. Which is always far, far worse.

Stockula's First Law:

Anything bad done to an American, or Americans, by foreigners, justifies any bad things done by another American, or Americans, to other foreigners, for a period of time to be defined by stockula.

You have the most curiously selective memory. I seem to remember the videos of hostage killings going to double digit pages of outrage.

I seem to remember that too.
But Keith... we really should stop questioning the actions of any branch of the American government.
The terrorists win that way you know.

Lame jokes aside... stockula, do you actually believe that no one gives a shit about what the terrorists are doing? Or are you just being thick for the purpose of causing a scene? What justifies the American military pulling shit like this? Why do they get to be evil fucking jackals but no one else does?

you guys can mock stockula all you want, but he makes a valid point. every single person i know who leans to the left has this idea in their head that our occupation of iraq is totally unjustified (which i don't agree with, but is certainly up for debate), and that everybody we kill over there in combat is guilty of no wrong doing (which is so ignorant, it gives me a nosebleed). i'm not saying there have been no collateral casualties, but that happens in war. we didn't invent it.

It's not that I think a lot of the Iraqis who've been killed weren't fighting us. It's that I think a lot of the Iraqis who've been killed wouldn't've have been fighting *if we weren't there*. The fact that we're there is creating this beehive of terrorists, the beehive was not there before. Do you know what I mean?

And I don't think anyone presumed the Iraqis strapped to the car had been innocent or guilty, merely that it's not the sort of tactic that's likely to win all those "hearts and minds" we hear so much about.


[Edited on Jan 28, 2005 by Keith]

Of course terrorists are bad. They do bad things. The whole world knows that. No surprise there. I want them to be wiped out, as do all liberals.

The US troops are not supposed to do bad things. They represent me to the rest of the world. I don't want to be represented by someone that could go through the process of tying a dead body to the hood of a car, making sure it's secure enough to not fall off, and then doing it again, never once thinking to themselves "Maybe this is a bad idea".

America: Were better than terrorists! (now with freedom flavoring)

I don't think you guys should be there. I've thought that from the beginning and nothing that I've seen has changed my mind. I DO NOT believe that every Iraqi that has been killed is completely innocent. I know some of them are attacking and killing American soldiers and hey... Americans will shoot to kill. That's war.

However... war is no justification for barbaric behaviour FROM EITHER SIDE. I don't think stringing burned American corpses from scaffolds is right. It isn't. Neither is strapping dead Iraqis to the hoods of vehicles. It's disgusting behaviour on both sides. Stockulas justification of "well they're doing it too..." doesn't cut it.

Because somebody else did something bad, we can do something bad too.

What the fuck is wrong with you idiots?

alright.

War kills people.
it destroys lives. It destroys the lives of innocents, and it destroys the lives of combatants. Can we agree on that?

Good.

Now does that, in anyway justify the use of a trophy as a way to intimidate the oppossition? I think not. War causes horrific things to happen, and often times they are overlooked by the hawks of a society blanketed in safety. "you" (a collective you) sit back in your comfort, thinking that the death is justified, no matter what the circumstances. The lack of access to an unbiased media (that is neither left nor right), means that "you" never see images, or read stories that offer you an opportunity to make up YOUR OWN MIND!

Think what you will about this sittuation, but do so critically rather then jumping to a conclussion based on your political slant.

I posted this because I know that some of the shit (the beheadings mainly) that the insurgents are doing is getting a lot of press. As it should be, it's fucking disgusting, it's a disgrace to humanity that they behead innocents. But I posted this to show you that your side has NO FUCKING MORAL HIGHGROUND!

War is fucked up, and America doesn't have any moral highground.

No. That's the very problem. He doesn't.

Maybe there's a point there you know.

Um ...where the fuck did you get THAT idea?

Seriously, where?

Keith handled the rest of the issue. Before the invasion, there was a widespread expectation from conservatives of a quick decisive victory, and a grateful population.

People like me said "Well, it may well not be quick, and it almost certainly won't be decisive, and you'll almost certainly create conditions in which acts of terrorism against the US increase rather than fall."

I said shit like that, before the invasion. I was right. And if stockula.wants to post about billboards posted by "traditional American family values advocates" gloating about the election victory, you can be fucking sure I am going to say "I told you so" in here about the fucking war, where people are dying daily.

O-fucking-K?

[Edited on Jan 29, 2005 by TheFuckOffKid]

the only thing you discredit when you say that you ass hole is an American Soldier. A veteran of the current war that this society is fighting.

Way to Support the Troops buddy. Glad to see you support them when they agree with you, but don't the second they open their mouths.

Maybe we should hang him for making these statements. Treason you know!

No, he doesn't. Other peoples' wrong actions have no bearing on yours.

Unjustified, maybe. Illegitimate, yes.

There's a difference between killing in combat and complete overkill just for the hell of it.

Wait, first you were talking about combat deaths, now it's collaterals. Which is it? Focus, man!

You invented this war.

Forget about the website. Do you have any convincing reason to discredit or disbelieve the account by the person in question? Is the person not a soldier? Are they likely to be making their story up?

It's not like you're going to see that interview on a pro-war site, eh? Is the interviewee somehow not credible? If not, why not?

It's not selective memory, Keith. It's stockula's prodigious capacity for outright dishonesty that's at work here.

True enough. But why are you so eager to condemn the US while ignoring the acts of the terrorists?

[Edited on Jan 28, 2005 by stockula]