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Phoebus

Phoebus

Italy
OLD SKOOL

NOV 29, 2004 06:26 AM

I especially like the anti-drug commercials that show a couple of kids in a car getting high at a fast-food joint and running someone over.

The King of Beers gets away with advising you to "Drink Responsibly", though. whatever

dem_z

dem_z

United Kingdom
June 2004

NOV 29, 2004 06:48 AM

The drugs thing: I think cannabis should be legalised for the over 18's. (Or whatever your alcohol laws are) At the moment people ignore any health advice attached to cannabis because they imagine that it comes form antis who are trying to stop people taking drugs. Legalising it would remove income from dealers, provide income to the state (especially if it was taxed gently) and free up police to concentrate on other crimes.

I'd go further; I'd probably legalise all drugs. The harm to society from heroin comes from it being addictive and illegal. People turn to crime to fund their habit. Most burglary in the UK is commited by people who need money for drugs. The state will not provide heroin for these people, but it does give them methadone. Many addicts don't want methadone because a)it isn't heroin and b)they say it is more addictive than heroin.


About the law thing:
US law is weird and complicated. It can't be a good way to run a country. Illiberalism is spreading across the world and causing great harm. frown

dem_z

dem_z

United Kingdom
June 2004

NOV 29, 2004 06:50 AM

Sceadufeax said:
I never understood why alcohol was legal and marijuana wasn't. I think either they should both be illegal or both be legal, not one or the other. I mean, how many people do you know get high then go beat the shit out of their wife? Or rape someone? It just doesn't make much sense to me.


Well, actually it happens more often than you'd think. Obviously it's much less often than alcohol related trouble. Cannabis is probably safe (apart from the whole smoking thing) for most people, but there are serious concerns about mental health problems and cannabis for a few people.

dysan

dysan

Vancouver, BC
December 2003

NOV 29, 2004 09:41 AM

I agree with the whole legalization of pot thing and making it have similar rules to alcohol use.

But the thing about driving drunk is that it can be tested for easily, but it's not as easy to check whether someone would be 'legally' high while driving, from what I understand.

Pot stays in your sytem for a long time, so you could have high concentrations in your blood without actually being high.

They're talking about doing this in Canada and I think that was one of the opposition's points.

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

NOV 29, 2004 11:58 AM

legionnaire said:
A ruling in favor of legalized marijuana could have significant ramifications but I don't think it would mean instant amnesty for felons convicted of pot-related charges yet, since a lot of drug trafficking could easily be considered interstate commerce and thus subject to federal restrictions, even with the more limited ones that you've outlined.



Precisely. Actually, not just "a lot" of drug trafficking, but practically any drug trafficking could probably be successfully argued to "have a significant impact on interstate commerce," since drugs grown or produced locally are virtually indistinguishable (as far as the law is concerned) from imported drugs.

This is why this is not a case about legalizing pot. It's a case about legalizing the practice of growing your own medicinal pot for your own use with the recommendation of a doctor when state law allows for that. But more broadly, it's a case about continuing to define what Congress can and cannot regulate, and when Congress can enact legislation that trumps state laws.

I'm glad you found that case info helpful. smile

[Edited on Nov 29, 2004 by bean]

Lit_the_Filter

Lit_the_Filter

Tacoma, WA
August 2004

NOV 29, 2004 06:45 PM

demetrius_z said:

Sceadufeax said:
I never understood why alcohol was legal and marijuana wasn't. I think either they should both be illegal or both be legal, not one or the other. I mean, how many people do you know get high then go beat the shit out of their wife? Or rape someone? It just doesn't make much sense to me.


Well, actually it happens more often than you'd think. Obviously it's much less often than alcohol related trouble. Cannabis is probably safe (apart from the whole smoking thing) for most people, but there are serious concerns about mental health problems and cannabis for a few people.



Okay, and SSRIs make some people suicidal.

Lit_the_Filter

Lit_the_Filter

Tacoma, WA
August 2004

NOV 29, 2004 06:46 PM

s5

s5

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

NOV 29, 2004 07:27 PM

demetrius_z said:
Legalising it would remove income from dealers,



i have never agreed with this argument. people will always pay a premium to get high or feel good. for example, prostitution is legal in nevada, but it's still expensive.

also, i don't buy the perception that dealers are evil people who prey on children and work with the mafia. yes, there are organized crime connections, but not always. many pot dealers are perfectly nice people who need some extra income and are lucky enough to have a friend who grows his own in mendocino county. some acid dealers are often just chem students who mix up their own and sell it. so, we're not always talking about evil columbian drug lords with ak-47s. often we're talking about perfectly nice people who need a way to earn some extra cash. i hope that after pot is legalized, that these people continue to make a good living.

Stiles

Stiles

Oakland, CA
November 2002

NOV 29, 2004 07:36 PM

dysan said:
I agree with the whole legalization of pot thing and making it have similar rules to alcohol use.

But the thing about driving drunk is that it can be tested for easily, but it's not as easy to check whether someone would be 'legally' high while driving, from what I understand.

Pot stays in your sytem for a long time, so you could have high concentrations in your blood without actually being high.

They're talking about doing this in Canada and I think that was one of the opposition's points.



There are ample functional field tests in use here for impaired driving. Ex: reciting the alphabet backwards, walking the line, touching your nose with head tilted back and eyes closed, etc. It would be hard to get a quantitative value, but someone too toasted to drive would likely have problems passing the tests.

EricMetro

EricMetro

Los Angeles, CA
November 2004

NOV 29, 2004 08:16 PM

I have never been able to say the alphabet backwards even stone cold sober.

I was tested for alcohol while driving once.(only because I was in an accident and I was wearing an undershirt with wine stains on it from the night before... hey, I didn't have time to change before I took my roommate to work!!) The test was cool. The dude said LISTEN TO WHAT I SAAAAY, and follow a long. Then he told me to move my finger to my nose, then sideways... meanwhile he put his finger to his nose and moved it up and down, hoping I would mimic him instead of listen to him. Ha ha! He did not trick me... then i walked some in a line and that was that... I am surprised I passed, I had a really bad concussion(I think they should have just drawn blood and tested for % to be fair, because being drunk and having a concussion are sort of similar)!

Stiles

Stiles

Oakland, CA
November 2002

NOV 29, 2004 08:19 PM

EricMetro said:
I have never been able to say the alphabet backwards even stone cold sober.



Many people can't but it's fun to see them try. My officer clients tell me the real test is how badly people screw it up.

El_Jefe

El_Jefe

Canada
August 2004

NOV 30, 2004 06:40 PM

s5 said:

demetrius_z said:
Legalising it would remove income from dealers,



i have never agreed with this argument. people will always pay a premium to get high or feel good. for example, prostitution is legal in nevada, but it's still expensive.

also, i don't buy the perception that dealers are evil people who prey on children and work with the mafia. yes, there are organized crime connections, but not always. many pot dealers are perfectly nice people who need some extra income and are lucky enough to have a friend who grows his own in mendocino county. some acid dealers are often just chem students who mix up their own and sell it. so, we're not always talking about evil columbian drug lords with ak-47s. often we're talking about perfectly nice people who need a way to earn some extra cash. i hope that after pot is legalized, that these people continue to make a good living.



As long as it was good quality and a reasonable price, I'd rather buy pot from a store than from a dealer. It would probably be more consistent and definitely alot more convinient. Even if it isn't some shady dealer, the quality often varies and that person isn't home all of the time.

As for prostitution, I think it's legal, but not actually provided by the governement. Plus, it's alot easier to produce good and cheap pot than good and cheap hookers. Drug dealers wouldn't have any edge on government pot.

The problem is that it would be hard to stop people from growing it themselves and not paying taxes.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Prohibition doesn't work. Regardless of how many people quit drinking when alcohol prohibition was enacted, many people smoke pot anyway, so criminalizing it doesn't help. If it's not working as a preventative measure, there's no sense sending these people to jail.

I also think all drugs should be legalized. I'm not about to start using hard drugs just because it's legal. I doubt people are going to start thinking it's ok to fly planes and perform surgery because the drugs are legal. Those actions would still be illegal. Most of the "drug problem" is due to the illegality of it. It would save money on enforcement and keep innocent people out of jail. It would also cut down on people buying bad stuff from shady drug dealers and ODing.

Cigarette

Cigarette

Cleveland, OH
April 2004

NOV 30, 2004 06:51 PM

Enigma_Entity said:
Legal analysts say one aspect of the case that makes it particularly worth watching is the mix of a liberal policy issue - medical-marijuana use - with a constitutional principle embraced by conservatives - federalism (state sovereignty).



This is really tangential, but isn't federalism the practice of having a strong central government, not a weak one?

Edit: Nevermind, I looked up the definition. I understand now.

[Edited on Nov 30, 2004 by Cigarette]

s5

s5

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

NOV 30, 2004 06:54 PM

El_Jefe said:
As long as it was good quality and a reasonable price, I'd rather buy pot from a store than from a dealer. It would probably be more consistent and definitely alot more convinient. Even if it isn't some shady dealer, the quality often varies and that person isn't home all of the time.

As for prostitution, I think it's legal, but not actually provided by the governement. Plus, it's alot easier to produce good and cheap pot than good and cheap hookers. Drug dealers wouldn't have any edge on government pot.



government grown pot is a terrible idea. when i heard that canada was planning to grow medical marijuana in abandoned mines in alberta, i laughed. if you want anything of quality, you need to buy it from enthusiasts.

the market for pot, as sold through dealers and small clinics, works just fine. don't think of marijuana as a "drug", think of it as produce. grocery stores, supermarkets and farmers markets are already quite efficient at matching up buyers with the level of quality they are willing to pay. i personally buy organic fruits and veggies from a local food co-op. someone else might not care about that level of quality. but i think i would pretty upset if my only option were to buy potatoes from the government.

s5

s5

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

NOV 30, 2004 06:57 PM

Stiles said:
There are ample functional field tests in use here for impaired driving. Ex: reciting the alphabet backwards, walking the line, touching your nose with head tilted back and eyes closed, etc. It would be hard to get a quantitative value, but someone too toasted to drive would likely have problems passing the tests.



i seem to remember a recent british study where drivers who used a small amount of marijuana had a lower rate of accidents. (drivers who used a larger amount of marijuana were probably too stoned to leave the couch.) i may be remembering this wrong, though.

delusion

delusion

Santa Barbara, CA
March 2004

NOV 30, 2004 07:12 PM

I have cancer. I smoke 4 or 5 times a day. I really couldn't eat or live normally without it. I've never chosen to get a government prescription, but, I can't even imagine going through this without being able to smoke.

GramNegative

GramNegative

I'm lost
October 2004

NOV 30, 2004 07:33 PM

s5 said:

Stiles said:
There are ample functional field tests in use here for impaired driving. Ex: reciting the alphabet backwards, walking the line, touching your nose with head tilted back and eyes closed, etc. It would be hard to get a quantitative value, but someone too toasted to drive would likely have problems passing the tests.



i seem to remember a recent british study where drivers who used a small amount of marijuana had a lower rate of accidents. (drivers who used a larger amount of marijuana were probably too stoned to leave the couch.) i may be remembering this wrong, though.


I dont doubt that at all. Because, unlike alcohol, it tends to mellow impatient assholes.

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