NEWS: But They're Free Now!

Why? You don't know waht I think. I've argued in favour of forcibly removing dictators like Saddam. It's the lying and reckless action I object to.

Yeah, hypocrisy sucks, don't it?

America was in the unique position of being his supplyer and having first-hand knowledge of what was happening. And no, Canada never sold him arms (?)--not that there were sanctions back then.

I think you know that the 'no one else did anything either' argument is weak.

They couldn't have honestly been that far off the mark. There's a difference between bending the truth and fabricating it.

link

Saddam has weapons of mass destruction. Lie.
Saddam has links to Bin Laden. Lie.
Saddam is a threat to the US. Lie.

The only thing that you've said here that is true is that yes, Saddam was a cunt and horrible to his people. Unfortunately that wasn't why you went to war.

Making mistakes because of limited data doesn't make you a liar, but let's indulge you for a moment and say your conspiracy theory was true - that Bush and Blair had full, credible intelligence that showed Saddam had no WMDs anywhere in the country and didn't pose any threat at all....I still say the ends justify the means. As you say, Saddam was a cunt who was horrible to his people. I'm glad we got him. What more needs to be said?

OK, the first flag goes up when a piece is so attrociously written.

This claims that the US didn't supply weapons. It does not that the US was propping Saddam up. They were supplying him. They knew about the Kurds. They were complicit in the crime.

I never said they had full, credible intelligence. I know they didn't. To me it seems like that should be a fucking good reason NOT to go ahead with an invasion. If you're basing a large military action on spotty intelligence... that's stupid. Telling the public that your intelligence is spot on and your war is fine and just is bullshit and lies.

I'm glad Saddam is gone too, don't get me wrong. I fully agree with you on that and I've said that already. I'm pissed because the US and Britain plowed on with this war for highly suspect reasons, completely misinformed the public to garner support AND had NO plan to clean up the shitstorm that followed.

No one here is pro-Saddam. Stop claiming that we are.

The War on Terror is being waged to help Iraqis escape tyranny in exactly the same way the War on Drugs is being waged to help poor black people get away from drugs.

Both seem to be equally effective. But that's because it's not actually about helping people escape oppression.

Legitimate causes don't need a revolving list of easily debunked fictional justifications to prove their validity. But some people will fight to the death to protect their ignorance.

As an aside, I don't know where you guys find the energy to try to mount a logical debate against this relentlessly gleeful numbskullery over and over and over again.

once the "insurgents" (this year's word for "demented terrorists") are finally beaten, life in Iraq will get better

until then, I support the war on the terrorists

People are still dying and starving and it's a fucking shame. I would love to see a huge improvement and I hope that action is taken quickly to combat rampant malnutrition.

I'll stop hijacking now. Sorry.

T H E N - T H E Y - W E R E N ' T - L Y I N G ! ! ! ! ! !

thank you!!!!!!!

I don't know - I think ten years is long enough to leave a madman waving what looks like a gun in your face before you plug him.

As I said, I am not too concerned about the whys and wherefors - I'm just glad that we got rid of the bastard - hurrah!

well they'll know for next time

[Edited on Nov 24, 2004 by Albion]

If you use false or incomplete information, pass it off as the gospel truth and use it to INVADE ANOTHER COUNTRY, that's bullshit lying.

Unfortunately, some of us are very concerned about it.

Yeah... I'm sure that'll really comfort the people who are dying and starving now.

Okay. That's it. I'm done now. Please resume discussing the starving kids. There will be another thread another day for this bickering nonsense.

but everyone KNEW it was "assumptions based upon intelligence" - it wasn't presented as anything other than that

it's like the exit polls - all those people who predicted a landslide victory for Kerry...were they lying??????

and that's why you give the impression that you aren't that glad to see the back of Saddam



[Edited on Nov 24, 2004 by Albion]

Shit.. you and Freak weren't lying when you said you were a triple threat.

sure it hurts after the surgury and it takes time for the body to settle...but was the body really better with the cancer?

?nuh?

Firstly, what part of "sad" don't you get, Albion?

Secondly, saying that the 11-pound child could be better off under Saddam is not the same as saying the nation would fare better under him. Even devils like Saddam, Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot made some good things for their people. We need to acknowledge that. Does acknowledging that mean that their hideous crimes are excused in any way? Of course not. But it DOES mean that if some things worked better under Saddam, the current administration needs to do a better job to avert a fucking disaster. An even bigger one than it's already been.

We need the UN to take a more proactive role in Iraq. We need the Arab world to participate in that role. For that to happen, the US/UK coalition will have to take a step back. We'll still need both the US and the UK in Iraq but in a less dominating position. Not primarly because thay are doing a bad job (which I think they do, but that's beside the point), but because they are met with suspicion. An international effort with less American demands is the only way to get a massive public support from the people in and around Iraq, to make it clear that it is an international effort instead of an imperialistic invasion. I don't get how this can be so hard to understand.

[Edited on Nov 24, 2004 by Mefistofeles]

Today's Bush Lie
"[Castro] welcomes sex tourism," Bush told a room of law enforcement officials in Florida, according to the Los Angeles Times. "Here's how he bragged about the industry," Bush said. "This is his quote: 'Cuba has the cleanest and most educated prostitutes in the world.'"

"As it turns out, Bush had lifted that quotation not from an actual Castro speech but rather from a 2001 essay written by then Dartmouth University undergraduate Charles Trumbull. In the essay, Trumbull did appear to quote a Castro speech about prostitution. Sadly, the student made the quotation up.

"According to officials, the actual quotation from Castro's 1992 speech reads as follows: 'There are hookers, but prostitution is not allowed in our country. There are no women forced to sell themselves to a man, to a foreigner, to a tourist. Those who do so do it on their own, voluntarily. We can say that they are highly educated hookers and quite healthy, because we are the country with the lowest number of AIDS cases.'"

"...And this isn't the first time the Internet has baffled Bush. Back in 2003, the President cited another student's thesis when making a case to go to war. The student's [plagiarized and "sexed up"] work ended up in a government document describing Iraq's weapons capability. Not exactly the kind of hard intelligence needed to justify an attack on another country." The Register, 07.28.04

____________________________________________________________________
The government lies to everyone about everything all the time. some of us are just better at picking out the bullshit.



[Edited on Nov 24, 2004 by HellboundLiberal]

Suggesting the Iraqi people (skeletal children, etc) would be better off under Saddam's rule is less an endorsement of that dictator (and his no doubt brutal methods) and more an all-out condemnation of the all-American bullet-headed Bush-initiated "Mission Successful" clusterfuck that the country has become.

-Billy Billy

If I get cancer, I hope they don't bomb the fuck out of me to cure it.

Excuse me for coming in late finding you at the end of your rather unfortunate ranting. I must confess that I have only read a portion of it. I have to say wow, you are truly an artist.

When did this become such a fucktard fest anyway, are they giving away free SG memberships at Free Republic?

[Edited on Nov 24, 2004 by tenmile]

Um, the war is over folks, didn't you see the 'mission accomplished" banner? where Bush announced 'major combat operations' had ended.
Things should be getting better right? cause the war is over.
Oh btw, this is nothing like vietnam cause vietnam happened over there in vietnam and this is happening in Iraq, anyway, vietnam happened years ago so lets not talk about that, We should only talk about the bad things that saddam did years ago.

these 'mistakes' have cost the lives of over a thousand american servicemen and women and many more iraqis.

lies...mistakes...when the stakes are this high you don't make allowences for either. the fact still remains that people have died for reasons which are murky, suspect and probably have little to do with any of the original reasons given for it and a lot to do with money. that in itself is grounds enough to be against the war and the administration who caused it. you don't send men and women who trust you to their deaths unless you absolutely have to...which isn't the case here and never was.

[Edited on Nov 24, 2004 by painbearer]