WaTed said:
3 of the scientists that I work with believe this too. Apparently cavemen were just men who lived in caves (I didn't really know how to respond to that one) and carbon dating is all wrong.

actually carbon dating can be wrong. if there is a huge shift in climate, it does something to the molecules. there are a bunch of other instances that can hamper the estimate carbon dating gives us. there was something about it on the history channel

That's why I said 'all wrong' initially. It isn't 'all wrong', it's just that some of the timeframes were wrong due to atmospheric conditions at various times, like you mentioned. You can calibrate your previous findings with this new evidence when you know the formula by which they should be recalculated. They appear to think that the fact that it was wrong at all means that it can't be trusted at all.

It's nice to see that TV still retains an educational element.

El_Jefe

Canada

August 2004

NOV 29, 2004 06:03 PM

legionnaire said:

El_Jefe said:

thistlesaid:
Why do you feel the need to make any judgment on a religion you don't seem to know much about? I will agree that many Christians are ignorant, but that's not necessarily caused by their belief in Christ. You seem to insist on making a blanket condemnation of Christianity, and it just seems pointless. The religion is too various and filled with individuals for blanket judgments to fit.

I used to be one of them and I'm not happy about it.

That may be, but I don't think you're going to change anything by making broad generalizations about all of Christianity. All you'll succeed in doing is pissing off and alienating Christians, which won't address any of your concerns with the religion. There are a shitload of people who consider themselves to be Christian, and you'll find that some of them are probably sympathetic to your concerns. The best way to try and change an institution like an organized religion is from within - highlight the practices that are the most offensive and then work with people inside the system to change those practices. History seems to have shown us that targeting the entire institution won't change it, and in fact may strengthen support for the people who you dislike the most by allowing them to play the victim.

I never said I was trying to change anything. I don't expect to take down the whole institution by posting on an SG message board. At best, I might convince somebody to take a critical look at what they believe. I think if people truly did that and looked at it from an unbiased point of view, they'd see it for bullshit. At the very least, I'll entertain myself by hearing such wonderful arguments as "all christians don't believe in everything you said. I know 2 guys in new Jersey who only follow the sermon on the mount. Therefore christianity isn't ignorant."

The fact is, I used to be a christian. I was a camp councillor at a christian camp. I've had exposure to all kinds of different flavours of christians. The quote I mentioned above was from the CHurch of England website. They were cited as an example of "wishy washy christians " and I think that's a pretty bare-bones definition of christianity. Every christian I've ever come in contact with has believed something along those lines. Most denominations have that much as a foundation and pile more on top of that.

kekaha

Puyallup, WA

November 2004

NOV 29, 2004 07:34 PM

So now you're, what? anti-Christian? Do you really hope to save the world one message board at a time, or are you just feeding your own guilt and telling yourself that:

I'll entertain myself by hearing such wonderful arguments as "all christians don't believe in everything you said. I know 2 guys in new Jersey who only follow the sermon on the mount. Therefore christianity isn't ignorant."

It can be devastating when you stop believing in something, and I am not only talking about losing your religion. Life goes on.

You have to realize, though, that there is almost zero chance that anyone who really believes all the things you call bullshit, is going to look at it from an "unbiased point of view", no matter how politely you attempt to state it.

Thistle

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

NOV 29, 2004 07:37 PM

I'm really surprised that you used to be Christian as you really seem to know very little about the religion and the origins of its teachings. You are not doing what you want other people to do, that is take an unbiased look at your ideas. It's hard to realize something you believed in was wrong, but calling the people who still believe it names is hardly productive. Just because it's an internet messageboard doesn't mean it can't contain reasonable discussion.

Hawks

Belleville, IL

December 2003

NOV 29, 2004 07:37 PM

Turin said:
ok wait, wait, wait. I want everyone to take a wild guess who most of these people voted for in the last election. just for giggles.

Kerry...just for giggles.

alpha_hazard

Fort Collins, CO

April 2004

NOV 29, 2004 07:47 PM

What I don't understand is the assertion that Creation makes man answerable to a higher power and, therefore, morally responsible; thus evolution must mean that man is answerable to nothing but his animal instincts and, therefore, morally flexible.

Idjit

HOPEFUL

I'm lost

NOV 29, 2004 08:21 PM

Rise_Above said:

Needless to say, you should be careful about what you see on the History Channel, or other infotainment channels such as Discovery and TLC - particularly on this topic. I once saw a Discovery Channel program on creationism vs. evolution that gave credence to impressions in a lakebed that purportedly show that dinosaurs and man existed at the same time. This "evidence" is rejected even by some creationist organizations since it is so clearly bogus - but Discovery leveraged it to fuel the fire without any sort of disclaimer.

Feel free to entertain your brain, but take it with a grain of salt and read up on stuff if and when you can.

[Edited on Nov 29, 2004 by Idjiit]