Fallujah in Pictures

Welcome to the meat grinder.

Edited to add: is this war really worth it?

[Edited on Nov 17, 2004 by Stiles]

Its still so strange to see this war in pictures. I don't have a TV and have only read and heard these things...It is really quite devastating to see this.



[Edited on Nov 17, 2004 by tangent23]

Guess it depends if you own stock in Halliburton.

Good thing voting vor 'values' means you vote for more of this.

[edit]I know this is all political I dont hate you for your opinion and will talk to you with out ill will anywhere else. I feel strongly about this because I have been there and see both sides and feel people are using the whole war for their own political gain. That being said please look at things objectively, you can disagree with me just understand the other side, instead of screaming about haliburtin stocks to people who dont own any.[end edit]

Alright htis just ticks me the piss off. You can go download tons of dead soldier pics. Infact many of the media clips about how evil the war is have pictures from the first war. Guess what Ican counter with kids in school with soldiers taht helped fix the school. Kids parents and old people waveing at soldiers thanking them from coming in. Now tell me this whos got the right story?

Nearly all my friends, soldiers i have been around from Marines, Navy, Air Force, and yes even coast gaurd believe in this war. However I am sure we are all just hick redneck gun toating Republicns right? Well yes there are guys in my unit that voted kerry, and there are some that probably votied independants. However nearly any soldier that has been their will agree the war is worth it.

No one brings up the Iraqi's we saved. The children that got blood transfisions from soldiers to survive from accidents unrelated to the war. The soldiers giving out food to the poor. The reconstruction of water etc.

I esepcially love the pictures of dead Iraqi's and under it they say innocent civilian, even though he has a vest with amagzine pouches kinda covered up by a body bag etc.

Even the pictures you posted show people with masks on and magazines pouched vests. I will never feel sorry for someone who engages in war and dies. I'll feel sorry for the familes but not the enemy. THe kids sleeping next to the tank with two soldiers. Yeah they left the caption out so you can make a false asumption.

More photos blinding the whole picture with fear and terror. Lovely just what us Soldiers need to see. If I go back and get killed my only wish is to sue the snot out of the people protesting the war and useing my photo for there benifit.

Tell you go over their and see whats going on I think it would be smarter to disagree with the war with a open mind instead of showing a whole bunch of pictures that have a one sided agenda.

[Edited on Nov 18, 2004 by InfernoMDM]

UGH, such a pointless loss of life. Most of the US boys weren't even old enough to buy a beer...

What exactly is your objection to images of the war? Is it that you think they are biased by the captions? Is it that they don't provide context? I'd actually like to hear more from you on this. For me the photos capture the human dimension of the war, put faces to the numbers. I, for one, have no quarrel with the soldiers and sympathize with their horrible situation. The same holds true for the Iraqis caught up in this. Why are photos so offensive?



[Edited on Nov 17, 2004 by tangent23]

There is a difference between showing the horror of war and showing photos of dead bodies to make a statment. Its not the photos that are offensive its the use.

Scroll down your going to see guys that are in a row. One I think has a mask, another has ammo pouches. This is intermingeled with hurt children. Many of which have no caption. Did these kids get hurt by the US or by a Iraqi landmine?

Then the shot of the kids (3/4 way down) with a kid and his leg is kinda bandaged. Looks like he twisted it bad. Several other children laying around on the ground as well. Looks like the two guys in the M1 killed them, but they are sleeping. Whats that look like to you? Fair and balanced my rear.

No pictures of good just bad, and of kids hurt etc. This war like many others have so many other facisits. Including the kindness the helping.

My friend had a sheep farmer come up and offer the soldiers water out of his small leather pouch. He told the the translator that he worried for the soldiers getting to hot and sick. THe guy walked 3 miles out of his way to do this. Where are the pictures of stuff like that on that site?

This isnt a picture of war this is a picture of death. Its a propgandistic atempt and making the war look bad. It does a great job to. Its nice to know so many people fall for it as well.

I really didn't get the impression from ANY of the photographs (other than those which have a detailed caption) that the US troops were wholly responsible for those casualties. It's interesting that you are apprehensive of how these images might be read, but also seem to have jumped to conclusions quite quickly.

These are images that won't be shown on our 10:00 PM news, and that's what is interesting about the link to someone like myself. Nobody in this thread has claimed that these pictures are representative of the whole truth that is going on in Fallujah.

I'm not sure if you'll be able to see it this way...but I figured some kind of re-assurance is better than nothing.

[Edited on Nov 17, 2004 by suicideguy]

Nope they are never shown on the news, even though similar ones are all the time. Trust me if you watch CNN and FOX news you see two different sides. CNN is pretty damn bad at showing the whole story. FOX isnt eather they are more balanced.

If you read the capations they talk about all the death etc. Maybe its just me I keep getting links to these kind of sites from the protestors of Bush, of war, of the evil empire. All trying to do something with the same pics. Probably why I am that way.

I never thought I would see 'more balanced' to refer to FOX. Guess seeing pigs fly won't be too far off.

Spend a few days in a war zone and then you will see there ware coverage is far better, as for the rest of it well you can make your own decision.

I don't mean to be flip about this, so please don't take it that way, but what else would you expect soldiers fighting in a war to say? Human beings have a deep need to justify our actions, and soldiers who fight in a war are no different. I would argue that they need to believe in what they're doing more than almost anyone else in any other situation. I understand that soldiers have a much better understanding than politicians or journalists, but I view their opinions as extremely biased, in general a great deal more so than anyone else. I am NOT trying to equate American soldiers with Nazi's with this, so don't take it that way, but how do you think German soldiers in WW2 felt? Do you think that they thought they were the bad guys?

Death and War are kissing cousins...there's simply no way around that. Is there a way to make the war look good? The pictures of gore posted on that site were difficult but what really got me was the picture of the kindergarten student holding up the full-dress photo of his uncle. With 130,000 troops in Iraq it made me wonder how many other friends and family members are out there holding similar photographs and hoping that their loved one will come home alive. It also reminded me that the policy makers in both the White House and the Pentagon are not people clutching photos of loved ones who are involved in fighting in Iraq. They make the decisions and other people pay the price, physically, spiritually and monetarily. It makes me question the judgment of this administration's desire to go to war in Iraq...a desire that Wolfowitz and others have had since the end of the first Gulf War. Over a thousand American families are grieving for a dead soldier and many more thousands of Iraqi families are doing the same. Is it worth it? As I see it, that is the real question posed by the photos, regardless of the context. Do photos lie? Sure, they can be manipulated...but that is true on either side. If the American press put out photos of a shepard giving water to the troops or the other stories you mention it would be seen as propaganda by much of the world, in much the same way you see the photos on the linked site as propaganda.

shocking, i tell you, simply shocking. who knew?

I'm not condoning the war but I'm not really shocked by any of this.

1) The youth of the soldiers isn't surprising. Soldiers are young that's just the way it is.

2) This is a war, people die.

3) Civilians are injured, people live in the battle zones, if they didn't there'd be no point in fighting over them.

The problem is that this war is only happening because of a failure to administer the country after the victory.

Your right tangent, but if you show bodies and shepards, what does that tell you? Maybe a photo of happy Iraqi's with unhappy rebels? Thats what I look for, because thats the big issue over there.

Vestril you are right that soldiers will want to believe more. If you look at vietnam though you see many soldiers didnt want to be there, because of the draft etc. Several soldiers went over and changed their views from one side or another. I dont think either side of the spectrum is painting a accurate picture. One is staying quiet and the other is screaming death.

Also the comparison of WW2 Nazi soldiers probably is that great. I get your meaning but now days the propaganda wheel is not pro war or pro Bush. We dont get nifty little phamplets that tell us whats going on. Many of the soldiers are watching Al Jazira BBC etc. This isnt the one sided fight for your country mentality of WW2. Also with the dynamics of this war that argument doesnt hold up as well. Mainly to do with the troops shifting all over and being well plugged into all venues of news, not just freedom america stuff.

Like I said before war has so many faces not just death. I think they miss much of it. There is death, sadness, grief, confusion, anger, hatred, rage, but there is also Joy, Hope, sucess, victory, compassion, sympothy etc. You never see the translators who talk to the familes who lost someone accidentily. You never see the soldiers help children out of situations. You never see the soldier who jumped on a child to protect him from a bomb.

The point you make about propaganda is well reasoned, and it's true, there was a great deal more machinery geared toward propaganda in WW2, but that wasn't quite what I was aiming at. Soldiers are, by and large, young men (much like you and I) and young men are extremely succeptible to the opinions of older men who we respect (like teachers we like or superior officers, to give some examples). This is the kind of propaganda I am envisioning, and I tend to think that superiors would not offer down their opinions that the war is a big mistake. What I am really looking at is the fact that much of military structure and reward systems exist to eradicate doubt and self-doubt in soldiers, and belief that you're fighting on the wrong side is a debilitating kind of doubt to have.

That soldiers are exposed to alternative and opposing views about the war means little, as they are part of a seperate group and the reinforcement they recieve for these opinions (what they hear from the people around them) would be generally for the war.

As far as comparisons to Vietnam...well they are about as useful as my comparisons to WW2, unfortunately, it was a different war, and one which was much harder on soldiers than the current war, there were far fewer victories and far worse conditions, and as you point out many of the people fighting in the war had not volunteered, which would foster a rebellious streak not necessarily found in the so-called volunteer army of today.

when i read the first post "this is what the American media doesn't show us," my first thought was,"more photos of death and despair, eh?" sure, the media doesn't show graphic photos, but this is really nothing new. when it comes to Iraq, it seems that if it isn't bad it isn't news. the only reason a ceremony celebrating the opening of a water treatment plant will get covered is if a car bomb killed 40 people who were attending it.

i just want to quote this to emphasize it before everyone starts worrying about the sky falling

Yeah, it's not surprising that corporate news coverage of the Iraq war would be as spotty as their coverage of...everything else. But, while I don't exactly think the sky is falling, I'm deeply disturbed by images like these because I don't really think that all of this is going to lead to a stable democracy in Iraq. Actually, I don't even think that it's going to lead to a sustained period of peace in Iraq. If I thought there was light at the end of the tunnel, I'd be able to deal with it better.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

(thought I'd share....)

I can't do anything but cry. I feel so much pain for these families & I feel awful for not being able to help these brave men & women.

riot.

my point exactly. nobody will cover any "light at the end of the tunnel." i've known iraqis who could see it, though. think they'll ever be on the news? i think that's what the media doesn't show us.

during the time i spent in Iraq i watched the Iraqi National Guard (formerly known as the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps) go from a rag-tag gang of guys with rifles and different outfits to an actual army. the iraqi police went from a rarity to a police force with a strong presence. did the media cover them shaping up, and trying to do some good for their country? no, but they covered every atack against them by insurgents, and always managed to work in,"the insurgents view them as puppets of the coalition," or something to that effect.

just remember the first rule of journalism: If it bleeds it leads

i wonder if anyone ever stopped to realise that america killed more civilians in a short war than a century of Hussein dictator ship would have done most likely.

Not even close Snottlebocket, he has something around 1.5 million I think. I can check that number again and make sure.