NEWS: Team America Rolls Into Fallujah

http://www.sundayherald.com/46056
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1115-08.htm
http://fallujapictures.blogspot.com/
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=621563&section=news
http://207.44.245.159/article7285.htm
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041115/REPOSITORY/411150349/1013/NEWS03
http://www.ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=26274

I have now lost all hope for our country and I will now apply to live in Canada even if it takes five years, how can you not see that is making fun of the very thing they are doing?oh and one last thing WALLMART FUCK YEAH!!!!!

Post moved

[Edited on Nov 16, 2004 by MetaTag]

Go Team!!!!

"I'm proud to be an American, cause at least I know I'm free.
I'll stand up, and walk proud, and then I'll shit on thee!!!"

Hey, we're not protesting the soldiers. I think soldiers in general are pretty great. I would rather they come home from Iraq and stop dying/killing, because even if they do the best damned job they could possibly do over there, it still doesn't change the fact that they've been sent to do the wrong fuckin' job.

It's like... If I worked in a restaurant across the street from a gorgeous old building that was being demolished to make room for a Kremlin-looking concrete job in the middle of summer. I'd be sad to see the building to, and silently fume at whomever in City Hall okayed the decision, but I'd still gregariously serve the construction workers lunch, and bring them ice water and stuff.

Levelling a city with the ground is a great way to win the hearts and minds of a population. Even better if you bomb their churches. Then shoot the wounded, say shooting the wounded isn't a big deal, say civilians left in the city do not need aid (see above link) , and then mock those who remain and have lost everything with loud western music.

Yay!

[Edited on Nov 16, 2004 8:10AM]

A few thoughts. This is truly amazing. Seriously. It's hard to tell which group of interpretations is more ridiculous, especially given Matt and Trey are fuck yeahing all the way to the bank.

So devoid of context we'll just call it postmodern propaganda! Fuck yeah.

Capitalism. Fuck yeah. Makin' money is our only real point, yeah.

Too many jokes to get? It's the humor, stupid. Fuck yeah. Oh, and don't forget to suck on my balls. That's always funny! Fuck yeah!

Those war-supporting-moral-value-loving red staters might start watching South Park now. Oxymoronic. That's nice. Maybe they'll start saying things like Per said, while still enjoying the the latest Roman Holiday complete with Alanis soundtrack from the comfort of their Lazyboys. etc.

Or maybe it really describes life in 21st century America and how we view the rest of the world. Oh yeah.

Otherwise, this chatty, random tripe is meaningless. Meanwhile, it distracts us from the real insideouness of America's long PsyOps history (dating back to at least the Nazis--and including them). Then, of course there are the 100,000+ dead in Iraq. At least they've been liberated from our invasive junk culture. Now that's irony. Upsidedown side, anybody?

America. America. America F@#k Yeah.
Comin' again to save the motherf@#king day, yeah.
America, f@#k yeah!

Freedom is the only way, yeah.
Terrorist your game is through
'cause now you have to answer to America, f@#k yeah.
So lick my butt and suck on my balls.
America, f@#k yeah.

What ya gonna do when we come fo' you now?
It's the dream that we all share, it's the hope for tomorrow.
F@#k yeah.

McDonalds, Wal-mart, the Gap, baseball, NFL, rock and roll, the internet, slavery, F@#k yeah, f@#k yeah.

Starbucks, Disneyworld, porno, valium, Reebok, fake tits, sushi, Taco Bell, rodeo, Bed
Bath and Beyond.

Liberty, waxed lips, the Alamo, Band-Aids, Christmas, immigrants, Popeye, Democrats, Republicans, sportsmanship, books.

Sad F@#k Yeah
America, f@#k yeah.
Comin' again to save the motherf@#king day yeah.
America, f@#k yeah.
Freedom is the only way yeah.
Terrorist your game is through.
Now you have to answer to America, f@#k yeah.
America, f@#k yeah

(Gotta love the symbols. They're everywhere.)

Er...you realize that soldiers don't have some sort of magical radar that lets them tell who is good and who is bad, who is armed and who is unarmed, right? The people who are condemning this really are doing it for political reasons, it's hard to see how this guy did anything wrong. It's terrible that it happened, but shit like this is what happens during war, that's why it's such a terrible thing. Honestly, the guy had no way of knowing that this person didn't have a .45 tucked away and was ready to blow his head off. Blaming that particular soldier acomplishes nothing.



[Edited on Nov 16, 2004 9:58AM]

It's about time they got the motto rt. "Be all you can be" wasn't arrogant enuf to represent our military. Now peeps around the world will remember us by the jingle that lingers....Team America, Fuck Yeah!

That is exactly why going to war isn't something to be done for such a stupid lack of reasons. That is exactly why W is the wrong man for the job, because he squandered the good will the rest of the world felt for America in 2001 for the sake of a war against the wrong people. This fool is making enemies for America, for no good reason.


[Edited on Nov 16, 2004 by waldo]

They should have played Spirit In The Sky during the initial raid. They could have called in air strikes and synchronised the dropping of bombs with the line, 'Gotta have a friend in Jesus'

I wasn't arguing for the war, as a matter of fact the war was one of the largest issues on my mind in the recent election. I voted for a candidate who was against it, would you have done the same (in other words, voted for someone other than Kerry or Bush)?

[Edited on Nov 16, 2004 by Vestril]

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting you were arguing for the war. But sympathy for the soldier doesn't exclude understanding that killing a wounded man, on camera, can only make your life and your nation's life worse.

Voting: If I'd been eligible to, yes. And I will, next spring probably.


[Edited on Nov 16, 2004 by waldo]

No need for apologies, I only wanted to make sure that my position was clear. I really don't believe violence can solve problems, we've been using it almost exlusively for a very long time, and as a professor of mine liked to say, if it could have solved our problems, it would have by now. I just don't see a point in blaming individuals for actions which were made as a direct result of someone else's mistakes.

Firstly, the war isn't really about hearts and minds anymore, as a large number of the combatants are not even Iraqi. Secondly, the "no fighting in mosques" rule has also gone out the window, as many of these terrorists are using mosques as bases of operations, and firing from them.
Thirdly, I have about as much sympathy for the residents of Fallujah as I do for the actual fighters. Sure, they're crying now, just like the townspeople who lived near the Nazi concentration camps and claimed they didn't know what was going on, when the very air was still thick with the stench of burning bodies. I understand that newspapers like the Guardian and the Times like to believe anyone who isn't American when they say they are innocents who have been devastated by US zealotry. That doesn't mean that it's an honest take on the situation.
It all kind of reminds me of something my Russian-American grandmother once said after she visited Franco's Spain for an academic conference. She said "Franco was wonderful. The soldiers were so gracious and the streets were so clean and nice." Sure the soldiers were gracious, because she was brought over as a guest by the government. And sure, the streets were clean, because anyone who might have dirtied them was in jail. Perception and reality are often quite different things.

And by "large number" you mean five percent.

Try again. Next time do your homework.

Raw numbers are not quite so germane to the point I was making as is their deployment.

This from the article you pointed me to: "'There is not someone in charge," Casey said. "There's collaboration between the Islamic extremists, between the foreign fighters and between the former regime elements. And it's a marriage of convenience.'"

Whether you consider "former regime elements" to represent the same "hearts and minds" which the previous poster alluded to, there is as much chance of winning those hearts and minds as there is of winning the hearts and minds of non-Iraqis or of Islamic extremists. Especially when, as the above quote makes clear, they're all mixed together.

This from CNN.com, referring to Syrians in 2003: "Many non-Iraqi fighters have mixed in with regime death squads and then joined the regular Iraqi army and Republican Guard forces, he said. Others have been seen in groups of 10 to 20 in areas as 'ambush points.'"

This from USAToday referring to others in 2003: "Military commanders have said they believe hundreds of non-Iraqi fighters from Ansar have entered Iraq to fight the U.S.-led occupation, many of them through neighboring Iran."

And, as my original post indicates, "According to the people of Fallujah, 'al-Zarqawi does not exist. He is a made-up figure'." (from a Ghali Hassan article on CounterCurrents.org)

So it boils down to the point I was making originally, which is that people are going to lie about their allegiances, their knowledge of atrocities, their personal amount of involvement, etc. At this point, the "hearts and minds" game is out the window, at least in Fallujah.






[Edited on Nov 16, 2004 by Raider17]

If the numbers aren't germane, why specify that "a large number" aren't even Iraqi. Especially when, you know, its not even remotely true?

Er...5% found in Fallujha...after the US broadcasted its intent to storm the city. Guerilla fighters don't generally stand against large troop deployments, they tend to prefer avoiding the bulk of the troops and strike where they can do the most damage while taking as little as possible. The people who would have a reason for making a stand in Fallujha are necessarily Iraqi, it is after all their home (Iraq, not necessarily Fallujha). It seems to me that the bulk of the foreign fighters would have been long gone from Fallujha-again, because they have no good reason to stand and fight and are undoubtedly aware that in straight combat they cannot match the US military. The statistics of the city do not apply to the country. Frankly I see little wrong with the fact that there are non-Iraqi's fighting against the US military in Iraq, if it isn't fair game, we had better re-examine how the American Revolution was won...

I know I probably shouldn't address this anymore, as this is obviously nitpicking meant to discount the larger issue, but 5% is a) only an estimate based on an extrapolation of 1000 people taken prisoner, and b) still a fairly large number, particularly when you add in the former regime elements and radical Islamists conveniently ignored from my last post (and the very article you linked to).
Add all those together and you should get back to the original point, that the battle for "hearts and minds" is out the window. I suppose it also never occurred to you that it is in many people's interest to flatly state that the insurgents are "95% Iraqis" while cleverly not specifying how many of those belong to the other two groups. While the rest may be operating under the principle that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", I think it would be foolish for us to proceed under any other assumption than "the friend of my enemy is my enemy".

You are probably right. I'm sure you have a much better estimate than the US military does of the number of non-Iraqi insurgent fighters in Iraq.

Uh-huh. That's exactly what I said. Yup. <checking national averages on SAT Reading Comprehension scores>