mnov said:
I disagree. As someone who voted for the president this issue has become more complicated. I am being told that I am a homophobe when I am anything but. I shouldn't have to defend myself about this. I voted for Bush for many reasons. One of which was the ban on gay marriage ONLY because of his support for civil unions. Someone in this board even admitted that Bush has come out for civil unions but they just don't believe him. I take the president at his word and believe that he means what he says. This is no different than the rest of you taking Kerry or Michael Moore for his word. I wish this were a simple issue. Unfortunately just because I voted for Bush I am a homophobe. Good thing that just because someone gets multiple piercings and tattoos they are not labeled a freak.
You voted for a president who has taken a large amount of funding from groups that can be described in no other way than as "homophobic," and who espouses policies that only subtly mask his disdain for homosexuals. So while you may not personally be a homophobe you have helped to advance the cause of homophobia by aiding its allies.
Imagine, for a moment, that David Duke is running for some office in your district. He happens to be in favor of, say, reducing local taxes, a policy with which you agree. He also happens to believe that jews, african-americans and women are second class citiziens, a position with which you do not agree. But you vote for him because you like his position on taxation. While it does not change your own personal opinions, you have aided bigotry because you helped elect a candidate who represents that ideology. Unfortunately we can't just elect the specific aspects of a candidate that we like - we have to elect the entire person, and casting a vote for that person is a tacit endorsement of all of their beliefs, even the ones with which we do not personally agree.
mnov said:
I disagree. As someone who voted for the president this issue has become more complicated. I am being told that I am a homophobe when I am anything but. I shouldn't have to defend myself about this. I voted for Bush for many reasons. One of which was the ban on gay marriage ONLY because of his support for civil unions. Someone in this board even admitted that Bush has come out for civil unions but they just don't believe him. I take the president at his word and believe that he means what he says. This is no different than the rest of you taking Kerry or Michael Moore for his word. I wish this were a simple issue. Unfortunately just because I voted for Bush I am a homophobe. Good thing that just because someone gets multiple piercings and tattoos they are not labeled a freak.
Sorry, but Rove says the administration's attack on gays will continue in the same vein, so I have to restate what I said about this in a different thread:
All the while when Bush was pushing his homophobic social agenda, all of his few supporters here at SG turned a blind eye and said, "it's just a political play; it'll never pass the senate." After all, they insisted, no one on SG would ever support limiting the rights of homosexuals! We're voting for Bush, they told us, but that doesn't make us bigots! We're not gung-ho evangelicals! He's just playing to his base on that issue, terrorism is the only thing we're thinking about, not gay marriage!
Well, now you've reelected bush, SG conservatives. And his opposition in the congress is severely crippled. You say you don't support his social agenda, but you don't get to pick and choose what the man you voted for will carry out. You've given him his mandate, and he will continue to chip away at the civil rights of gays and women and atheists, despite what you may have told us or thought, and it'll be on your head. Never let yourself forget at night that you chose to put into the most powerful office on earth an unbridled social zealot, and when the marriage ban you claim to hate, the prayer in school you say you oppose, and the abortion legislation you profess to disdain are put into place, never forget that you paved the way for them. Don't ever forget that when it came time to make a decision, you chose to side with the bigots, mysogonists and homophobes in your party.
I would really like to see that quote from Rove in print. I do believe the administration will proceed in the same vein but there is hardly an attack on gays. Bush has no pushed a homophobic agenda, banning gay marriage while supporting civil unions I would say is a very reasonable agenda. Anyone, liberal or conservative, who counts on the senate for anything, is very misguided. Are you criticizing people for not making the social agenda their number one issue in this election? I find it hard to believe that many people believe 100% of what either candidate stood for. I know I disagreed with a lot that Bush has done over the last 4 years. Gay marriage was hardly what was on my mind when I pulled the lever on Election Day.
I will say I do support a lot of the presidents social agenda. I am not ashamed of that either. I am against partial birth abortions. I am for prayer in school. Isn't that freedom of speech?
BrokenGavelBlues lets turn this around. When there is no more terrorism in the world. As the economy keep growing over the next four years, as the tax code is reformed, social security is partially privatized, and education is dealt with, you can stand proud and say if it were up to you, none of these things would have happened.
BrokenGavelBlues lets turn this around. When there is no more terrorism in the world. As the economy keep growing over the next four years, as the tax code is reformed, social security is partially privatized, and education is dealt with, you can stand proud and say if it were up to you, none of these things would have happened.
HAHAHA, right.
do you work for the RNC?
How about when our friends come home from iraq in body bags, more people want to terrorize us because we blew up their family, more people are angry at us because they don't have water and electricity and we have hummers, abortion is illegal, an amendment to ban rights is floating around the states and rich people are paying less taxes than me, old people don't have enough money to live, poor people can't pay for thier healthcare, more schools close and all the libraries in my town are closed i can stand proud and say if it were up to me, none of these things would have happened.
Lets PLEASE remeber that civil unions are not even anywhere near equal to marrige. its easy for bush to say he supports them while his "team" is working hard to limit them. They DO NOT transfer from state to state and DO NOT recieve federal and state rights like marrige does. i don't want to be thrown a bone by Bush or Kerry, i want to have all the rights everyone else who either gets drunk in Vegas or loves somerone for 20 years can get. why is my love worth LESS?
I'll say it again.
WHY IS MY LOVE WORTH LESS?
could you see my relationship, look me in the eye and tell me it is less.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure elective "partial birth" abortions are already illegal except for perhaps a few very narrow exceptions. They are allowed when giving birth might kill or seriously injure the mother though. Do you think that should be changed?
I am for prayer in school. Isn't that freedom of speech?
Only if students have the freedom to say or not say it as they choose. Also, what kind of prayer? Would you be for all students saying Koran verses in a primarily Muslim school district?
legionnaire
Belgium
November 2003
NOV 11, 2004 11:51 AM