If that's the case, they're in violation of regulations. If it's true, I also hope that they get in a lot of trouble, as I personally (as a military servicemember) am not at all a fan of the military being an active participant in politics. I would much rather leave the responsibility of affecting and shaping policy to civilians, and have us just do the whole "executing" part (I'm sure a bunch of folks loved that pun ) . I'll look this up when I return stateside, but there's a good chance that this is bad reporting. It wouldn't be the first time that officers fulfilling remaining time in the (inactive) reserves were misidentified for a variety of reasons and articles. Those sort of errors happen often; for instance, one book I was checking out today made reference to the 101st Airborne (Air Assault) making their first combat jump since WWII in northern Iraq during OIF. It was untrue, of course, and if one journalist-slash-author can misidentify more than 20,000 soldiers, their mission, their geographical location, and their role in the war... well... you get my point.
[Edited on Sep 05, 2004 by Phoebus]
You don't have to do too much investigating. The GOP announced it in press release.
stockula said:
John Kerry fabricates his military decorations, and the Bush campaign is the villain for pointing it out. Classic.
You realize that with this particular lie, you not only denigrate the candidate who is a decorated veteran, but also the dozens of other decorated combat veterans who were actually there and have uniformly testified on Kerry's behalf right?
"Now, 35 years after the fact, some Republican-financed Swift Boat Veterans for Bush are suddenly lying about John Kerry's service in Vietnam; they are calling him a traitor because he spoke out against the Nixon administration's failed policies in Vietnam. Some of these Republican-sponsored veterans are the same ones who spoke out against John at the behest of the Nixon administration in 1971. But this time their attacks are more vicious, their lies cut deep and are directed not just at John Kerry, but at me and each of his crewmates as well. This hate-filled ad asserts that I was not under fire; it questions my words and Navy records. This smear campaign has been launched by people without decency, people who don't understand the bond of those who serve in combat."
Jim Rassman thinks your a liar, too, Stock.
[Edited on Sep 05, 2004 by reprobate]
Before you read this, here's the long story short.
Long story shorter: Schachte's name appears nowhere in the official record and the other two crewmen who were actually there have attested to the fact that not only wasn't here there, they didn't have a grenade launcher. They are also both on the record before Schachte appeared out of the ether. Their account was also edited to remove all references to enemy fire on the SBV website and then removed entirely so as not to contradict Schacte's claim.
Bill Zaladonis and Pat Runyon think you're a liar, too Stock.
Then you'll have no problem showing me where you learned that.
BTW, Schratce's account said that there was just one other man, an EM, on the boat during this action.
[Edited on Sep 06, 2004 by stockula]
31
JohnClement
Silver Spring, MD
January 2004
SEP 06, 2004 05:18 PM
I can understand why there may be a discrepancy Stock; it seems the Swift Boat camp isn't even too sure:
Swift Boat Vets edited its website to conceal contradiction MMFA spotted
Three days after Media Matters for America first reported that the website of anti-Kerry group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth contradicted the account of the group's star witness -- retired Rear Admiral William L. Schachte Jr., who claims he was the commander on the December 2, 1968, mission for which the U.S. Navy awarded Senator John Kerry his first Purple Heart -- Swift Boat Veterans for Truth altered its website's account of the incident to make it consistent with Schachte's version of events. According to Schachte, Kerry did not deserve the award because the "skimmer" he supposedly commanded that night did not receive enemy fire, and Kerry's wound was the result of Kerry's own improper use of an M-79 grenade launcher.
The original version of the account on the Swift Boat Vets website begins:
The action that led to John Kerry's first Purple Heart occurred on December 2, 1968, during the month that he was undergoing training with Coastal Division 14 at Cam Ranh Bay. While waiting to receive his own Swift boat command, Kerry volunteered for a nighttime patrol mission commanding a small, foam-filled "skimmer" craft with two enlisted men.
As MMFA explained, this description matches Kerry's own account, as well as the account of Patrick Runyon and William Zaladonis, two enlisted men who insist that: (1) Schachte was not on the skimmer; (2) that Kerry was in command; and (3) that Runyon and Zaladonis were the only other people besides Kerry on the small craft.
The new, altered version of the Swift Boat Vets account reads:
The action that led to John Kerry's first Purple Heart occurred on December 2, 1968, during the month that he was undergoing training with Coastal Division 14 at Cam Ranh Bay. While waiting to receive his own Swift boat command, Kerry volunteered for a nighttime patrol mission on a small, foam-filled "skimmer" craft under the command of Lt. William Schachte. The two officers were accompanied by an enlisted man who operated the outboard motor.
The Web page's footer reads: "Last Updated Monday, August 30 2004 @ 09:09 PM PDT." -- three days after MMFA's item appeared.
In addition to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth's own website, MMFA has noted that other evidence substantially undermines Schachte and Swift Boat Veterans for Truth's attack on Kerry's first Purple Heart. MMFA has extensively documented and refuted Swift Boat Vets' attacks on Kerry in the media.
G.W.
stockula said:
John Kerry fabricates his military decorations, and the Bush campaign is the villain for pointing it out. Classic.
You realize that with this particular lie, you not only denigrate the candidate who is a decorated veteran, but also the dozens of other decorated combat veterans who were actually there and have uniformly testified on Kerry's behalf right?
"Now, 35 years after the fact, some Republican-financed Swift Boat Veterans for Bush are suddenly lying about John Kerry's service in Vietnam; they are calling him a traitor because he spoke out against the Nixon administration's failed policies in Vietnam. Some of these Republican-sponsored veterans are the same ones who spoke out against John at the behest of the Nixon administration in 1971. But this time their attacks are more vicious, their lies cut deep and are directed not just at John Kerry, but at me and each of his crewmates as well. This hate-filled ad asserts that I was not under fire; it questions my words and Navy records. This smear campaign has been launched by people without decency, people who don't understand the bond of those who serve in combat."
Jim Rassman thinks your a liar, too, Stock.
[Edited on Sep 05, 2004 by reprobate]
Before you read this, here's the long story short.
Long story shorter: Schachte's name appears nowhere in the official record and the other two crewmen who were actually there have attested to the fact that not only wasn't here there, they didn't have a grenade launcher. They are also both on the record before Schachte appeared out of the ether. Their account was also edited to remove all references to enemy fire on the SBV website and then removed entirely so as not to contradict Schacte's claim.
Bill Zaladonis and Pat Runyon think you're a liar, too Stock.
Then you'll have no problem showing me where you learned that.
BTW, Schratce's account said that there was just one other man, an EM, on the boat during this action.
[Edited on Sep 06, 2004 by stockula]
From the dozens of major fucking media articles on the subject that ran at the time. Try googling their names, commander.
CNN Capital gang:
"HUNT: Well, Mark, let's leave John Kerry and let's leave Schachte aside for a minute. I talked to those two enlisted men today. I talked to Pat Runyon and Bill Zaladonis. They both were on that boat December 2, 1968. They say there is no way that the admiral could have been on that boat. And they describe in vivid detail that night. They say it was a small, 14-foot boat with an outboard motor, that, in fact, with their weapons and other material, that four people would have been a really, really tight fit. They took orders from John Kerry. They remember -- Zaladonis remembers Kerry saying, Shoot over here, rather than over here, when they were in a firefight. And Runyon remembers him telling him to, Start the boat. Let's get the hell out of here. Zaladonis remembers when Kerry was hit, and they just say it's absolutely impossible to -- you wouldn't have had two officers on a little boat like that on that kind of a mission.
Moreover, Schachte has changed his story. A year ago, he talked to Michael Kranish of "The Boston Globe," and he said that there was a firefight. He didn't say he was in the boat. He said Kerry was hit -- quote, "hit" -- though it wasn't very serious. Now he says there wasn't a firefight and it was a self-inflicted wound. Moreover, he went and he said that he -- when he saw Kerry 20 years later in Washington, he was with a top aide with -- of Fritz (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Ashley Thripp (ph). Ashley Thripp I talked to today and said, No way. I wasn't there."
MSNBC:
"Myers: So there was not a second officer with you on the mission?
Zaladonis: No. Not at all.
Myers: Do you recall a person by the name of Bill Schachte?
Zaladonis: I've only heard his name recently because I've heard that he claimed he was on the skimmer with us.
Myers: Mr. Schachte claims he was on the skimmer with John Kerry that night.
Zaladonis: Right. Well, he claims that but he's wrong. The night that I'm talking about it was just myself, John Kerry and Pat Runyon. And I don't know how else I can say that. That's all there was on the boat. He may have been on the swift boat.
Myers: It was 35 years ago; how certain are you that Bill Schachte was not there that night?
Boston Globe:
"I spoke to Admiral Schachte," O'Neill said. "He places himself on the skimmer." O'Neill also hinted that Schachte will soon address the issue himself. So what do William Zaladonis and Patrick Runyon, the two men who were on the skimmer with Kerry at the time, say?
"Myself, Pat Runyon, and John Kerry," says Zaladonis, the engineman on Kerry's first swift boat, "we were the only ones in the skimmer."
smithers_jones
I'm lost
November 2003
SEP 05, 2004 09:53 PM