NEWS: The Hollow Triumph of the Right?

One has to keep the fish on the line somehow.

Nice creative edit Repy. Full quote has the relevance. “I will repeat yet again, 1994 bonds are the more recent issue I hold, most are older.

I thought one so quick to spew forth financial analysis and claim to have studied graduate level finance would have a clue how yield works. Pretty simple concept, you have “market value” (that is where that cited link pointed, if you had bothered to check) and then you have redemption value. This is the difference between selling a used car on eBay versed taking it to the dealer and having them give you the trade in value, just that the vehicle market works on depreciation and the Bond market works on appreciation. Yield refers to open market trading percentage and your simplistic grasp of rate is what DoPD would give you if you cashed out your bond.

YEILD
1994 – 4.68%
1991 – 5.85 to 5.92%
1990 – 5.78%
1989 – 5.60%

Throwing around that liar accusation is rather funny coming from you.

Try to follow the logic, it is a common debate tactic. One can toss out something that one knows he will be called upon to set the bait for a trap. If you thought before posting then it would have dawned upon your to check the current value of 1993, 1992, 1991, 1990, 1998…(you know, do some research?) issued Bonds and realized that having made a bold claim that the Bonds picture were not close to being face value was a flat out lie.

To win the war, one might need to lose a battle (game, set, match).

OK Doubting Thomas, drop by Avenel some time, I will personally introduce you to some people who do refer to Potomac, Md. as the Beverly Hills of the East. Try watching the Open on TV, they have made the same reference in the past. BTW – Nice avoidance of per capita income, we can apply the same standard you use .
“I also notice that your claim… has evaporated from your argument. You still have to prove that, too.”

Color me shocked that one who has been pointed out to creatively edit citations to change meaning, misconstrue posting order, and suffer from false assumptions would keep perpetuating the same lies.

One should take a hard look in the mirror before making bold accusations (note a good portion of your false assumptions and conclusions that you have perpetuated in this thread alone).

This is rather hypocritical and I can not believe the double standards being spewed forth from a detractor of racial profiling.

“Defend your fucking assertion.” “If you cant, you're a liar.” “Until then, you're a liar no matter how many pages you crank out to try and obscure that fact.”

Be kind enough to practice what you preach, do your own research, Doubting Thomas.

I made the bond, tax lien and false broad generalization assertion, not you. All have proven to be true. Having pointed out your numerous false assumptions and wrong conclusions and you are getting pissy about factual accuracy and the double standard you wish to operate under crashing down around you.


“Defend your fucking assertion.” – reprobate

I find editing necessary to keep us on topic. So to recap, your responses are:

1. A very creative misstatement of both your original assertion and present valuation of private trading of instruments. Sorry Guildy, but the fact is that the last holder has to sell the car back to the dealer and is only going to get what the dealer is offering. Market rate is based on that, not some magic higher number.

2. "I lied, bit it was strategic lying."

3. "You don't know her, she lives in Niagra Falls"

4. "I don't have to prove it, and I have proved it, except that I can't"


Sorry Guildy, but you lose. Enjoy the Turtle Wax. You can use it on your Fiats.

I really like you how you spin when you got nothing in your pocket but lint. Readers, lets see whar more crativity Repy will dazzle us with.... simplicity to avoid the impact of prior losing points. Interisting tactic but won't work.

And warping what people posted to fit your twisted reality.
reprobate quote of Guildenstern: "Republicans currently control three branches of the Federal government is a wide eyed generalization that is wrong."
Guildenstern Untampered sentence: "Implying that “conservative” Republicans currently control three branches of the Federal government is a wide eyed generalization that is wrong."

He edits out the words, states this is what you meant and then feigns indignation when you catch him in the act.

Then your repeated misstatements of what Lemonnier did post.
reprobate blessed this thread with: “That would be hard to do since what she said was that Republicans do not control the Supreme Court.”
Guildenstern Layeth the smack down with: “I don't think the Supreme Court is controlled by conservatives.” – Lemonnier

You can be a Republican and not be a conservative.”
******************************************

Caught red handed practicing editing to perpetuate your misrepresentations. Especially liked your warping what imblades2 posted also, nice apology BTW. Still waiting on mine. At least I am adult enough to admit when I am wrong.

Funny, that I make it simplistic enough for the casual reader and you still have not grasped or refuted the definition of “yield”

The please enlighten the rest of the readers with your expert financial knowledge on yield. Here is the definition to kick you off:

YIELD

The annual income from a SECURITY, expressed as a percentage of the current market PRICE of the security. The yield on a SHARE is its DIVIDEND divided by its price. A BOND yield is also known as its INTEREST RATE: the annual coupon divided by the MARKET PRICE.

Sounds like someone is bitter that he got owned on the point that he based a quip on false assumption. Spin away on Savings Bond face value.

You lie because it is compulsive? Ego? Personal inadequacies? Please explain to the readers why you feel it is proper to misquote people to base your positions.

You do realize that this is rapidly feeding into another news piece and you have provided two topic areas. One being that the double standards practices by the self-proclaimed intellectual elite. Thanks.

Avenel is a golf course in Potomac, Md. where the Kemper open is hosted. Nice avoidance of the point. You want people to tell you it is so… pay a visit or watch some TV. The truth is that it is your OPINION that it is not so and you have yet to produce ANY evidence, just opinion, to the contrary: a lame duck per capita argument and rejection of a website that makes that statement.

Do your own legal research, it is your position that it is illegal so “{d}efend your fucking assertion.” The truth is you are basing your position on OPINION and obstinance and you already confirmed that there are numerous financial web sites that outline the process for Tax Lien Auctions in those 36 states where this is a state run and legal process. Try using Find Law, unless it is beneath you (you are fond of insulting people who use that search engine).

Keep the wax, you need it for your legs. Might help with the skid marks too.


How low will Repy debase himself to perpetuate a losing debate. So far we have seen:

• He will use double standards when it fits his needs.
• Misrepresentation of what others post.


• Creative editing to warp quotes to meet his representations.


• Fall prey to the fallacy of believing opinion over fact.


• Perpetuate false assumptions with obstinance and avoidance.


• Hypicritical for insulting individuals for “reading comprehension”, “big show” and the need for “training wheels” when he, himself, has the same disabilities.

Over all, not very progressive, moral, or intelligent.


“Defend your fucking assertion.” – reprobate
Problem, Repy, is that you have a delusion that you are on offense and other people are on defense. When in actuality, you made the accusations and now need to“{d}efend your fucking assertion.” “If you cant, you're a liar.” “Until then, you're a liar no matter how many pages you crank out to try and obscure that fact.” Be the ball, Dany.


[Edited on May 23, 2004 by Guildenstern]

LexisNexis is chock full of state Code.

Rule 14-302. Sales - Generally.

(a) When court may order.- At any stage of an action, the court may order a sale if satisfied that the jurisdictional requisites have been met and that the sale is appropriate.

Cross References.

See Code, Family Law Article, § 11-104 and Keen v. Keen, 191 Md. 31 (1948) for sale of nonresidents' property to satisfy alimony decree; Code, Family Law Article, § 8-202 for sale of real or personal property incident to a divorce decree; Code, Business Regulation Article, § 5-505 for sale of burial grounds; Code, Real Property Article, § 14-107 for sale in lieu of partition; Code, Real Property Article, § 14-110 for sale of consecutive interests in land by agreement of parties; Code, Tax Property Article, §§ 14-808 through 14-854 for tax sales; and Code, Tax General Article, § 13-810 for sale to enforce income tax lien.

Now, go scamper off and do your own research, I am not going to provide Code from 36 different States because you want to maintain the delusion that Tax Lien Auctions are illegal.

Sorry, only have this balloon art for your consolation prize.



“Defend your fucking assertion.” – reprobate

Guildenstern said:
LexisNexis is chock full of state Code.

Rule 14-302. Sales - Generally.

(a) When court may order.- At any stage of an action, the court may order a sale if satisfied that the jurisdictional requisites have been met and that the sale is appropriate.

Cross References.

See Code, Family Law Article, § 11-104 and Keen v. Keen, 191 Md. 31 (1948) for sale of nonresidents' property to satisfy alimony decree; Code, Family Law Article, § 8-202 for sale of real or personal property incident to a divorce decree; Code, Business Regulation Article, § 5-505 for sale of burial grounds; Code, Real Property Article, § 14-107 for sale in lieu of partition; Code, Real Property Article, § 14-110 for sale of consecutive interests in land by agreement of parties; Code, Tax Property Article, §§ 14-808 through 14-854 for tax sales; and Code, Tax General Article, § 13-810 for sale to enforce income tax lien.

I've highlighted the relevant portions. Here is my original statement again: "Most states cannot auction off a forced lien against an unforeclosed property beacuse its considered a taking."

This law, that you don't understand, permits the state to foreclose title in sublimation of the mortgage, if any, and sell the property. Not the lien. The property.

Any other states for which you would like to prove my point?

Complete quotations, in sequence.

G: "Republicans (the whole political party, not a fraction group) control all three branches of the Federal government and a majority of states. That would have been an accurate statement."


L:"I don't think one could even say that Republicans control the Supreme Court."

You conceded the point with out modifier or qualification and the point youre siezing on now was the rebuttal.

Now there's a knee slapper.

And heres the definition you need to be using: "For bonds and notes, the coupon rate divided by the market price. This is not an accurate measure of total return, since it does not factor in capital gains."

The private market value is, as noted elsewhere, still sublimated to what the government is going to give you for it. You always have to go back to the maker in the end.

There was no quip.
There was no assumption. You made a bald-faced categorical assertion that was completely false.

You seem confused as to proof versus opinion. It is your opinion that if I go to some golf course people there will say Potomac is the Beverly Hills of the East. It is an incontrovertible fact, however that nowhere in 4.3 billion websites or in the annals of 4500 publications has anyone ever referred to it thusly. In fact even if we include the more egalitarian usenet and its 845 million messages, we find exactly one guy who calls it that. He also writes an awful lot like you.

Hey, you know what? If saying I'm wrong will get Guildenstern to shut up, I'll happily do it. Um. I was like, wrong or something, in whatever way he thinks I contradicted Reprobate. Reprobate is right, and Guildenstern, as usual, is wrong, and in a thoroughly creepy way. The SCOTUS isn't "controlled" by republicans, but the federal judiciary as a whole is growing more and more conservative, in terms of who is sitting on the bench and the decisions they hand down-- but since the judicial branch works in a completely different, non-hierarchical way, I don't think it can be said to be "controlled by conservatives" in the same way the legislative and executive branches are. Jeez. Apologies for being unclear.

You know what? I probably also made the mistake of using conservative and republican interchangably, which was wrong of me. So terribly sorry.

I don't think anything will get Guildenstern to shut up.

I don't understand anything he writes, but I know he goes onandonandonandonandonandon ....

Thats OK, Guildy doesn't understand most of what we writes either, and when he does, he's far too busy saying so as obliquely and confusingly as possible so as to obscure the fact that he's completely changed his story. Once you do cut through the crap its dull as dishwater anyway.

Take for example his pontification of "YIELD". Some time ago Guildy claimed, quite specifically, that the interest rate on a range of EE Bonds was over 5%. This is, to be charitable, laughably false. When called on it he threw out some verbiage and a table with some numbers over 5%. Those numbers have nothing whatsoever to do with interest, but rather the amount that a private buyer will pay above what the government will pay to redeem the bond. In a nutshell, as long as the government pays interest, someone else will pay you a little more than the government so they can get the interest later. This is a one time premium that you have to sell the bond to get. It is not interest. You are in effect trading the value of future interest to get your money now. Its also not a true reflection of profit because Guildy bought the bonds privately which means he paid a premium to get them in the first place.

Either Guildy doesn't understand the difference or he hopes that by muddying the waters he will be able to continue to pretend he wasn't lying. Like I said, dullsville. This is why I save orangutans instead of doing trade law.

Valiant effort, Repy.

The State does not foreclose on the property prior to the Tax Lien Auction. The State holds a public auction to collect funds to cover property taxes in arrears. The individual or entity then receives a Tax Lien certificate from the State against the property. States vary on when the individual can then force a foreclosure, which can range from 6 months to 2 years. Some States will initiate the foreclosure proceeding for the Tax Lien holder after a set period of time.

You might want to investigate Right of Redemption before offering armchair legal declarations.

BTW, what you are claiming is called a Tax Deed Sale, California allows for both Tax Lien Certificate and Tax Deed sales.

Funny that you grab the suggestion to scooter11 for less inflammatory wording verses the section that takes exception to the generality used (this point was covered on page 6). Pay a visit to page 2 for the posts Repy, cits from and page one for my lead-in to the post in question.

G: “Implying that “conservative” Republicans currently control three branches of the Federal government is a wide eyed generalization that is wrong.”

L: “No, it's right (no pun intended), but with regard to only two branches-- I don't think the Supreme Court is controlled by conservatives. Congress, both houses, are controlled by conservatives”

Try to differentiate debate from suggestion. The point about labeling all Republicans as conservatives is what I took exception to and what the topic covered up to that point and through to now. Note that this was part of my post right after Lemonnier’s

G: “My only issue here is the stereotyping and generalization to incite. I would equally condemn someone for spouting “Lefty, bleeding heart Democrats.”

That is a big clue to where I was and am still going, but if you can’t believe it…

A rebuttal to you on page 6.
G: “You can be a Republican and not be a conservative.”

That would be your warped reality (see above). Lemonnier agreed that Republicans do not control the Judicial Branch, agreeing that scooter’s generality that conservative Republicans control all three branches of the government was wrong.

All Lemonnier did was point out that my suggestion was wrong. I realized it and moved on.

If I could only be like Repy… no, I have morals and try to avoid double standards and hypocritical accusations.

Capital gains is just tax, the same tax that one has to pay for trades on the stock market and selling one’s house. It is the cost of doing business.

Did you know that it is common practice to sell off the earned interest on a Bond? The holder would then be responsible for the capitol gains. There are other options with bonds. The public Bond market is not as closed a loop as you want to believe.

BTW – where did your face value claim go? Your 5% “rate” accusation is keeping it company.

Where did your Bond face value accusation (assumption) go? Funny that your accusations are evaporating and in the process you are demonstrating your propensity to lie, rearrange quotes, and creative editing to perpetuate your lies.

I find it alarming that you casually toss out accusations and can not fathom the hypocrisy of taking that course. Use double standards much? Be careful, they might take away your Libertarian cape and decoder ring.

Lets revisit:
“I don't give a fuck who lives there, you said that it is commonly known as the Beverly Hills of the East. Its not. If you say it is, good for you, but show me someone else who says so. If you cant, you're a liar.” -- reprobate

You said show you a person and you will find at least one person at Avenel, even if that person is one of the announcers at the Open. You made the challenge, fly out and I will prove it to you. Till that point, your OPINION can not be proved or disproved.

I also find it charming that you are no longer defending your per capita income assertions.


“Defend your fucking assertion.” – reprobate


[Edited on May 23, 2004 by Guildenstern]

No, the state reserves a statutory time period in which the individual in arrears can redeem the property before title passes. Since you like the get rich quick sites so much, heres what one at random has to say:

"Are you looking to purchase a California Tax Lien Certificate? Currently the state of California is NOT offering Tax Lien Certificates. Although state statute makes provisions for investors to purchase a California Tax Lien Certificate NONE of the current 58 counties issue tax lien certificates. Instead local counties offer California Tax Deeds. When a California home owner refuses to pay their property taxes the taxing district will sell the property to the winning bidder at annual tax sale auction."

Why you might ask is this the case? Because the state statue in question was deemed to be an unconstitutional taking.

Just like I said.

California allows for both Tax Lien Certificate and Tax Deed sales. As you were so keen to NOW believe financial web sites (nice double standard, BTW). You will note on the sites that are up to date, California recently passed legslation allowing for Tax Lien Auctions. Not positive but I think two years ago. Feel free to confirm how long ago.

Now please do share what that same web site says about the state of Maryland.


“Defend your fucking assertion.” – reprobate


[Edited on May 23, 2004 by Guildenstern]

No, you seized the point after you conceded otherwise and started pretending thats what you meant all along.

True, but thats not the salient part of what I quoted. The salient part was the fact that your table is an abstraction based on a formula bearing little relation to what you realize from the sale. More saliently, however is still the fact that you didn't claim the yield was 5% or better, you claimed the interest is 5% or better and its not. You are one again attempting a bait and switch.

It didn't go anywhere. Its right here:

"There was no quip. There was no assumption. You made a bald-faced categorical assertion that was completely false."

Do try to keep up.

What on earth are you talking about? Firstly, I'm not remotely libertarian. Secondly, there is nothing casual about my accusation. You said: "Compare the interest rates. EE Bonds are 5% or better but current issue HH are 1.5%. Which is the better investment? Try to follow, 1994 EE bond is NOW currently worth over $1000. "

You lied and are trying desperately to obscure that fact. Its not casual. Its not a quip. I made no assumption. You were not setting a clever trap. You were not talking about yield from a private sale.

You lied. Twice.

You seem terribly confused my friend. You said "Potomac, MD is referred to as the Beverly Hills of the EAST whether you like or not." You have to prove that. I have cited voluminous references that it is in fact not referred to as the Beverly Hills of the East. If you type in "Beverly Hills of the East, you get 237 pages on Buckhead. Seems to me if anyone other than you and, allegedly, a golf announcer was referring to Potomac thusly they're would be at least one google hit or news article. My "challenge" was and is, strangely enough, for you to prove your assertion. The burden of proof is on you; you cant prove it because you made it up. I can call my house Versailles on the Pacific if I like. It doesn't make it so.

Your misstatement of my position on the issue was not and is not germane to the discussion. I attempted, back in the days when I held out hope that you were in fact a rational being not some internet gangsta with an honesty problem, that I could point out the significant differences between Potomac and Beverly Hills. One of those points was establishing that your sole benchmark was not a reflective one. I have since established that, in fact, you made up the assertion and thus the differences between the two communities are far less significant, because the rest of the world has, apparently, noted them.

Yes. A toast.

I don't have to. The above is not out of date. California added the statue, which it never had before because of constitutional issues, and has never implemented it because despite having been written to get around the constitutional requirements, it was, even when written, highly suspect. California does not, and has not ever sold a Tax Lien Certificate.

As for Maryland, who cares? I said quite a long time ago that they were perfectly legal in Maryland, but that the majority of other jurisdictions had constitutional issues with them. That hasn't changed.

I started with a premise (first post, page 1), expanded it to cover scooter11’s statement of all three branches (fourth post, page 2 -- post three and four were filler) and have not wavered from that position since. You, on the other hand, lost the point on the Judicial Branch and the Senate. Remember, definition of “control”?

There was no conceding of my premise, Lemonnier even agreed that labeling the Judicial Branch as controlled by the conservative Republicans was incorrect. She took exception to the House and Senate. Why bother arguing when you have a TKO?


[Edited on May 23, 2004 by Guildenstern]

Try reading the definition.

YIELD

The annual income from a SECURITY, expressed as a percentage of the current market PRICE of the security. The yield on a SHARE is its DIVIDEND divided by its price. A BOND yield is also known as its INTEREST RATE: the annual coupon divided by the MARKET PRICE.

Rate=Yield
1994 – 4.68%
1991 – 5.85 to 5.92%
1990 – 5.78%
1989 – 5.60%

“I suppose I don't know that they're not mature” – reprobate
Might be a good thing to remember what you have posted in the past. You admitted to making an assumption then and are perpetuation wrong assumptions now.

“ALLOW”

You kept stating that Tax Lien Auctions were illeagal. The use of the word “allow” means, and you confirmed this, that it is “LEGAL” in the State of California. Thanks for "condeeding" Maryland.

Whether a locality practices or not was never specified, qualified, or requited.

I recommend you be a little less ego-Testical in the future and think hard about your prior posts before making points for me.

How low will Repy debase himself to perpetuate a losing debate. So far we have seen:

• He will use double standards when it fits his needs.
• Misrepresentation of what others post.


• Creative editing to warp quotes to meet his representations.


• Fall prey to the fallacy of believing opinion over fact.


• Perpetuate false assumptions with obstinance and avoidance.


• Hypicritical for insulting individuals for “reading comprehension”, “big show” and the need for “training wheels” when he, himself, has the same disabilities.

Over all, not very progressive, moral, or intelligent.

Wow, you just posted five times in a row, Guildenstern. This all must be very important to you...