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Otoki

Otoki

SUICIDEGIRL

Minnesota, USA

MAR 06, 2013 09:10 PM

Slock said:
I'm French and I remember when TV stations and newspapers talked about what Obama wanted (and want) to do concerning the US healthcare system.

I was very happy for American people, 'cause anyone in France can say it : even if you're rich, having an excellent (and sure controled, even it's really hard to do... We know that very well in France ^^) healthcare system can helps you to solve a lot of problems (diseases, eyesight, hearing...) without fearing to be out of money. A good healthcare system can save a lot of life... emergencies or accidents for instance. The benefit is that you don't have to pay at all for the biggest part of treatments ; everything is done by a free green card.

It's really important for American people to change their way to see what is "social". It's hard for a lot of reasons but I'm sure that minds are changing.
Health costs in US is uncontroled and inordinate that's the biggest problem... Even if I'm not concerned because it's not my country, I really think it would be a plus if Obama succeed.


Anyway... I do not mean that the French system is unequivocally superior to the American. In fact, both systems could profit from an understanding of the other's strengths (without a doubt)biggrin. Thanks for this subject I learned a lot with the explanations of other's posts smile.


Thanks for your very interesting post.

Could you explain more about the "green card"? It's easy to find general info on other countries' healthcare systems, but difficult to find every-day details.

CoyoteMike

CoyoteMike

Iowa City, IA
May 2006

MAR 06, 2013 09:26 PM

punk513 said:
I do agree with you on a couple points. But, I am actually in medicine and what people don't understand its that we are already overflowing with patients whether they are pay or non-pay. With OC you will not even get the 7-9 minutes that you hope for because there is simply overflow. Most of my friends in primary care will just be opting out and not taking on any more pts simply because they have no space in their schedule. We are currently looking at a shortage of 25-40 thousand primary care docs by 2020 and admissions to family practice or internal medicine residences are dropping every year. People cannot expect someone to give up 11-15 years of their young life to medicine and not be rewarded in some fashion. I graduated with 200k in student debt and its not easy to pay down even with a good salary. We really have a big problem on our hands and OC doesn't address it. We can give everyone in the world free healthcare, but if there are no providers, MD, DO, NP, PA's etc, nothing will change.


Coyote_ said:
I honestly cannot see any downsides. This eliminates nearly all of the money now being spent on uninsured, emergency patients (of which I have been). With the addition of preventative care, overall medical costs will drop dramatically in the long run.

I particularly liked the part about Doctors being paid based on the quality of their care rather than the quantity of patients they see. One of the biggest complaints I've heard is that patients simply do not have enough time to talk to their doctors (one of the NPR shows did a piece on this not too long ago, but I don't remember which one). The average time spent with a doctor in the room for a checkup/visit is something like 7-9 minutes. That is an average of 45-50 patients in a day, depending on how backed up they get with a more difficult case.





That is more of an education problem than a medical one. How many potential doctors are scared away from the job because of the cost of education? How many more doctors would we have if medical school were cheaper/free/subsidized?

Lone_Ranger

Lone_Ranger

Antarctica
September 2004

MAR 06, 2013 09:51 PM

Coyote_ said:

motorfirebox said:

ChrisSick said:

motorfirebox said:
It's like a Gordian knot of stupidity.



You got a sword?


omg why are libruls so violent



STOP RESISTING!!!



ok just let me keep talking while you stick it in me

Otoki

Otoki

SUICIDEGIRL

Minnesota, USA

MAR 06, 2013 10:25 PM

Coyote_ said:

punk513 said:
I do agree with you on a couple points. But, I am actually in medicine and what people don't understand its that we are already overflowing with patients whether they are pay or non-pay. With OC you will not even get the 7-9 minutes that you hope for because there is simply overflow. Most of my friends in primary care will just be opting out and not taking on any more pts simply because they have no space in their schedule. We are currently looking at a shortage of 25-40 thousand primary care docs by 2020 and admissions to family practice or internal medicine residences are dropping every year. People cannot expect someone to give up 11-15 years of their young life to medicine and not be rewarded in some fashion. I graduated with 200k in student debt and its not easy to pay down even with a good salary. We really have a big problem on our hands and OC doesn't address it. We can give everyone in the world free healthcare, but if there are no providers, MD, DO, NP, PA's etc, nothing will change.


Coyote_ said:
I honestly cannot see any downsides. This eliminates nearly all of the money now being spent on uninsured, emergency patients (of which I have been). With the addition of preventative care, overall medical costs will drop dramatically in the long run.

I particularly liked the part about Doctors being paid based on the quality of their care rather than the quantity of patients they see. One of the biggest complaints I've heard is that patients simply do not have enough time to talk to their doctors (one of the NPR shows did a piece on this not too long ago, but I don't remember which one). The average time spent with a doctor in the room for a checkup/visit is something like 7-9 minutes. That is an average of 45-50 patients in a day, depending on how backed up they get with a more difficult case.





That is more of an education problem than a medical one. How many potential doctors are scared away from the job because of the cost of education? How many more doctors would we have if medical school were cheaper/free/subsidized?


That, and the government can do a lot to encourage people to go into specific fields. Right now Pharmacy has a Federal Student Loan limit of 100k more than any other grad program. Not sure if that's also the case with Medical. 200k+ in loans is a lot more manageable when the interest rate is under 7%.

Felice

Felice

I'm lost
January 2006

MAR 07, 2013 12:06 PM

Otoki said:

Slock said:
I'm French and I remember when TV stations and newspapers talked about what Obama wanted (and want) to do concerning the US healthcare system.

I was very happy for American people, 'cause anyone in France can say it : even if you're rich, having an excellent (and sure controled, even it's really hard to do... We know that very well in France ^^) healthcare system can helps you to solve a lot of problems (diseases, eyesight, hearing...) without fearing to be out of money. A good healthcare system can save a lot of life... emergencies or accidents for instance. The benefit is that you don't have to pay at all for the biggest part of treatments ; everything is done by a free green card.

It's really important for American people to change their way to see what is "social". It's hard for a lot of reasons but I'm sure that minds are changing.
Health costs in US is uncontroled and inordinate that's the biggest problem... Even if I'm not concerned because it's not my country, I really think it would be a plus if Obama succeed.


Anyway... I do not mean that the French system is unequivocally superior to the American. In fact, both systems could profit from an understanding of the other's strengths (without a doubt)biggrin. Thanks for this subject I learned a lot with the explanations of other's posts smile.


Thanks for your very interesting post.

Could you explain more about the "green card"? It's easy to find general info on other countries' healthcare systems, but difficult to find every-day details.



I'm not entirely sure if this is the same in France, but in Germany (there are two different types of insurance, this comment will just cover the most common type) anyone who has a job or gets welfare (or is married or the child (up to a certain age) of someone who falls into those categories) gets a card, like a credit card, that holds all the relevant patient information. By that I mean name, address, the insurance company they're with, no funky info on pre-existing conditions or the like. This card gets swiped at the Doctor's office. After you saw the Doc, you go home. You never see an invoice. It's taken care of. At least for standard stuff. (Pretty much any emergency, any sickness, broken bones, psychological issues, preventive medical check ups, pregnancy related things, cancer treatment, a new hip, in many case even weight loss camps,... I can't really think of anything else now.)

If you want a boob job, chances are, you'll have to pay for it yourself. Unless the psychologist your insurance paid for indicates that you will suffer (and potentially get major/more depressions that will make your overall health go down) from not having a boob job.

mydogfarted

mydogfarted

Oakland, NJ
June 2003

MAR 07, 2013 12:45 PM

Felice said:
If you want a boob job, chances are, you'll have to pay for it yourself. Unless the psychologist your insurance paid for indicates that you will suffer (and potentially get major/more depressions that will make your overall health go down) from not having a boob job.



Here they usually only cover reductions, and that is only if you can prove it medically necessary - excessive back/shoulder pain, etc.

CoyoteMike

CoyoteMike

Iowa City, IA
May 2006

MAR 07, 2013 01:23 PM

mydogfarted said:

Felice said:
If you want a boob job, chances are, you'll have to pay for it yourself. Unless the psychologist your insurance paid for indicates that you will suffer (and potentially get major/more depressions that will make your overall health go down) from not having a boob job.



Here they usually only cover reductions, and that is only if you can prove it medically necessary - excessive back/shoulder pain, etc.



I wonder if they break things up. Like, the actual boob job is not covered, but the hospital stay/medications/recovery/etc are?

Slock

Slock

France
February 2009

MAR 07, 2013 04:38 PM

Felice said:

Otoki said:

Slock said:
I'm French and I remember when TV stations and newspapers talked about what Obama wanted (and want) to do concerning the US healthcare system.

I was very happy for American people, 'cause anyone in France can say it : even if you're rich, having an excellent (and sure controled, even it's really hard to do... We know that very well in France ^^) healthcare system can helps you to solve a lot of problems (diseases, eyesight, hearing...) without fearing to be out of money. A good healthcare system can save a lot of life... emergencies or accidents for instance. The benefit is that you don't have to pay at all for the biggest part of treatments ; everything is done by a free green card.

It's really important for American people to change their way to see what is "social". It's hard for a lot of reasons but I'm sure that minds are changing.
Health costs in US is uncontroled and inordinate that's the biggest problem... Even if I'm not concerned because it's not my country, I really think it would be a plus if Obama succeed.


Anyway... I do not mean that the French system is unequivocally superior to the American. In fact, both systems could profit from an understanding of the other's strengths (without a doubt)biggrin. Thanks for this subject I learned a lot with the explanations of other's posts smile.


Thanks for your very interesting post.

Could you explain more about the "green card"? It's easy to find general info on other countries' healthcare systems, but difficult to find every-day details.



I'm not entirely sure if this is the same in France, but in Germany (there are two different types of insurance, this comment will just cover the most common type) anyone who has a job or gets welfare (or is married or the child (up to a certain age) of someone who falls into those categories) gets a card, like a credit card, that holds all the relevant patient information. By that I mean name, address, the insurance company they're with, no funky info on pre-existing conditions or the like. This card gets swiped at the Doctor's office. After you saw the Doc, you go home. You never see an invoice. It's taken care of. At least for standard stuff. (Pretty much any emergency, any sickness, broken bones, psychological issues, preventive medical check ups, pregnancy related things, cancer treatment, a new hip, in many case even weight loss camps,... I can't really think of anything else now.)

If you want a boob job, chances are, you'll have to pay for it yourself. Unless the psychologist your insurance paid for indicates that you will suffer (and potentially get major/more depressions that will make your overall health go down) from not having a boob job.



Yes the principle is the same (as in Germany) excepting one or two points.

The card contains exactly what Felice said (it's funny to know that France have a lot of similarity with Germany).
In France, we have the French national health insurance ; its particularity is that if you're born in France (or get married to a French or any other situation that makes you a French), you can get this "green card" (follow the link to see a specimen of the card). It alllow to have your money back in five days only.

The concerned domains are Consultations (to a doctor, specialist, psychiatrist or neuropsychiatrist...) that are reimbursed to 70%, Biological analysis (blood sample, or not blood sample...) to 60%, Hospitalization (everything) to 80%, Dental (consultations, treatments, surgery, false teeth...) to 70%, Optical (everything) to 70%, Auxiliary to 60%, Course of treatment between 65% and 100%.

It's surely strange for the most part of us here but it works fine and to fund that, taxable people pay everything ; it's included in the income tax.
Also, we have some "supplemental group insurance" ; it is purchased privately by the employer and premiums are paid by both employer and employee. It covers what the public health insurance plan doesn't smile

Otoki

Otoki

SUICIDEGIRL

Minnesota, USA

MAR 07, 2013 06:18 PM

Slock said:

Felice said:

Otoki said:

Slock said:
I'm French and I remember when TV stations and newspapers talked about what Obama wanted (and want) to do concerning the US healthcare system.

I was very happy for American people, 'cause anyone in France can say it : even if you're rich, having an excellent (and sure controled, even it's really hard to do... We know that very well in France ^^) healthcare system can helps you to solve a lot of problems (diseases, eyesight, hearing...) without fearing to be out of money. A good healthcare system can save a lot of life... emergencies or accidents for instance. The benefit is that you don't have to pay at all for the biggest part of treatments ; everything is done by a free green card.

It's really important for American people to change their way to see what is "social". It's hard for a lot of reasons but I'm sure that minds are changing.
Health costs in US is uncontroled and inordinate that's the biggest problem... Even if I'm not concerned because it's not my country, I really think it would be a plus if Obama succeed.


Anyway... I do not mean that the French system is unequivocally superior to the American. In fact, both systems could profit from an understanding of the other's strengths (without a doubt)biggrin. Thanks for this subject I learned a lot with the explanations of other's posts smile.


Thanks for your very interesting post.

Could you explain more about the "green card"? It's easy to find general info on other countries' healthcare systems, but difficult to find every-day details.



I'm not entirely sure if this is the same in France, but in Germany (there are two different types of insurance, this comment will just cover the most common type) anyone who has a job or gets welfare (or is married or the child (up to a certain age) of someone who falls into those categories) gets a card, like a credit card, that holds all the relevant patient information. By that I mean name, address, the insurance company they're with, no funky info on pre-existing conditions or the like. This card gets swiped at the Doctor's office. After you saw the Doc, you go home. You never see an invoice. It's taken care of. At least for standard stuff. (Pretty much any emergency, any sickness, broken bones, psychological issues, preventive medical check ups, pregnancy related things, cancer treatment, a new hip, in many case even weight loss camps,... I can't really think of anything else now.)

If you want a boob job, chances are, you'll have to pay for it yourself. Unless the psychologist your insurance paid for indicates that you will suffer (and potentially get major/more depressions that will make your overall health go down) from not having a boob job.



Yes the principle is the same (as in Germany) excepting one or two points.

The card contains exactly what Felice said (it's funny to know that France have a lot of similarity with Germany).
In France, we have the French national health insurance ; its particularity is that if you're born in France (or get married to a French or any other situation that makes you a French), you can get this "green card" (follow the link to see a specimen of the card). It alllow to have your money back in five days only.

The concerned domains are Consultations (to a doctor, specialist, psychiatrist or neuropsychiatrist...) that are reimbursed to 70%, Biological analysis (blood sample, or not blood sample...) to 60%, Hospitalization (everything) to 80%, Dental (consultations, treatments, surgery, false teeth...) to 70%, Optical (everything) to 70%, Auxiliary to 60%, Course of treatment between 65% and 100%.

It's surely strange for the most part of us here but it works fine and to fund that, taxable people pay everything ; it's included in the income tax.
Also, we have some "supplemental group insurance" ; it is purchased privately by the employer and premiums are paid by both employer and employee. It covers what the public health insurance plan doesn't smile



So if I understand correctly, in France there are co-pays associated with most visits?

Felice

Felice

I'm lost
January 2006

MAR 08, 2013 09:42 AM

Coyote_ said:

mydogfarted said:

Felice said:
If you want a boob job, chances are, you'll have to pay for it yourself. Unless the psychologist your insurance paid for indicates that you will suffer (and potentially get major/more depressions that will make your overall health go down) from not having a boob job.



Here they usually only cover reductions, and that is only if you can prove it medically necessary - excessive back/shoulder pain, etc.



I wonder if they break things up. Like, the actual boob job is not covered, but the hospital stay/medications/recovery/etc are?



Breast reductions can be covered if a doctor indicates it's necessary. That's really the main point. People have to get a doctor to say a procedure (or for example weight loss camp or whatever else) is necessary. Hospital stay and medications etc are usually covered, too.



We also have co-pay stuff for some things. As far as I know check ups with any doctor are free (to be honest, I rarely go see a doctor, so this is just kind of "general knowledge stuff"), but some stuff, like tooth crowns, may require co-pay. As far as I know anything that concerns children (under the age of 18) is free.

Slock

Slock

France
February 2009

MAR 08, 2013 05:57 PM


SPOILERS! (Click to view)

Otoki said:

Slock said:

Felice said:

Otoki said:

Slock said:
I'm French and I remember when TV stations and newspapers talked about what Obama wanted (and want) to do concerning the US healthcare system.

I was very happy for American people, 'cause anyone in France can say it : even if you're rich, having an excellent (and sure controled, even it's really hard to do... We know that very well in France ^^) healthcare system can helps you to solve a lot of problems (diseases, eyesight, hearing...) without fearing to be out of money. A good healthcare system can save a lot of life... emergencies or accidents for instance. The benefit is that you don't have to pay at all for the biggest part of treatments ; everything is done by a free green card.

It's really important for American people to change their way to see what is "social". It's hard for a lot of reasons but I'm sure that minds are changing.
Health costs in US is uncontroled and inordinate that's the biggest problem... Even if I'm not concerned because it's not my country, I really think it would be a plus if Obama succeed.


Anyway... I do not mean that the French system is unequivocally superior to the American. In fact, both systems could profit from an understanding of the other's strengths (without a doubt)biggrin. Thanks for this subject I learned a lot with the explanations of other's posts smile.


Thanks for your very interesting post.

Could you explain more about the "green card"? It's easy to find general info on other countries' healthcare systems, but difficult to find every-day details.



I'm not entirely sure if this is the same in France, but in Germany (there are two different types of insurance, this comment will just cover the most common type) anyone who has a job or gets welfare (or is married or the child (up to a certain age) of someone who falls into those categories) gets a card, like a credit card, that holds all the relevant patient information. By that I mean name, address, the insurance company they're with, no funky info on pre-existing conditions or the like. This card gets swiped at the Doctor's office. After you saw the Doc, you go home. You never see an invoice. It's taken care of. At least for standard stuff. (Pretty much any emergency, any sickness, broken bones, psychological issues, preventive medical check ups, pregnancy related things, cancer treatment, a new hip, in many case even weight loss camps,... I can't really think of anything else now.)

If you want a boob job, chances are, you'll have to pay for it yourself. Unless the psychologist your insurance paid for indicates that you will suffer (and potentially get major/more depressions that will make your overall health go down) from not having a boob job.



Yes the principle is the same (as in Germany) excepting one or two points.

The card contains exactly what Felice said (it's funny to know that France have a lot of similarity with Germany).
In France, we have the French national health insurance ; its particularity is that if you're born in France (or get married to a French or any other situation that makes you a French), you can get this "green card" (follow the link to see a specimen of the card). It alllow to have your money back in five days only.

The concerned domains are Consultations (to a doctor, specialist, psychiatrist or neuropsychiatrist...) that are reimbursed to 70%, Biological analysis (blood sample, or not blood sample...) to 60%, Hospitalization (everything) to 80%, Dental (consultations, treatments, surgery, false teeth...) to 70%, Optical (everything) to 70%, Auxiliary to 60%, Course of treatment between 65% and 100%.

It's surely strange for the most part of us here but it works fine and to fund that, taxable people pay everything ; it's included in the income tax.
Also, we have some "supplemental group insurance" ; it is purchased privately by the employer and premiums are paid by both employer and employee. It covers what the public health insurance plan doesn't smile



So if I understand correctly, in France there are co-pays associated with most visits?






Yeah... Felice answered before me and she summarized very well what it looks like smile

Clidna

Clidna

Canada
January 2005

MAR 08, 2013 07:22 PM

This is kind of interesting; it has information about 10 different health care systems around the world (France, Germany, Britain, Canada, Switzerland, Taiwan, China, Cuba, Brazil, and Russia).

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