Trayvon Martin Case

Here, maybe this will help. Posted on page 2:

I have a pretty bad case of tinnitus and heard "Fucking Coons" pretty clearly (start at about 1:50 in the video).
Could he be pissed off at this guy:

Possibly. They are becoming a problem Florida.

I haven't seen the prior police filings about the jewelry. Link?

No. The point is that those things don't matter. You're ignoring the fact that Zimmerman felt the need to use a gun in self defense against someone half his size. Trayvon was unarmed. So what part of that seems reasonable? Can you not see how it seems extremely likely that race played a huge role in Zimmerman's evaluation of Trayvon as a threat?

And for the record, you're the first person I've encountered that doesn't hear the phrase "fuckin coons" on that tape.

Just looking at the description of the assault let's say he was smashing Zimmerman's head on the concrete, that could kill someone. If that were the case then it becomes a matter of life and death and perhaps that is when he shot.


We don't know that to be the case, but it's not impossible. An overweight man in his late 20's could be overpowered by an athletic teenager.

So here's what I got from that first article you posted. Treyvon Martin was visiting his father while he was on suspension. At least that's all that's pertinent to him being killed.

Honestly, I don't care for the "race baiting" or whatever the hell you want to call it, however, I do think race was a factor in Treyvon's death, possibly even in the ensuing investigation. Despite the polarizing effect that personalities like Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson may have (and I agree that they are generally distracting), they also happen to be lightning rods among the African American community. While it may not be entirely helpful for them to have placed themselves into the center of this tragedy, their presence isn't unwarranted, particularly given the injustice of the situation and inaction on the part of law enforcement.

I don't like the idea of people being agitated for political or personal gain, but I'm just not seeing Sharpton or Jackson as being very instrumental in this regard (I think there's already enough public outcry even without race being the issue - unfortunately it really is a part of the issue). In case you missed it, the handling of Martin's death is only the most recent complaint that the African American community has had with local law enforcement. The fact that Zimmerman also used a racial epithet moments before the shooting clearly doesn't settle well either.

Missy, just to correct one thing. Zimmerman is 5'9" tall. Trayvon was between 6'2"-6'3" he was lighter as Zimmerman has more weight but trayvon was taller by about half a foot.

Interesting, but not exactly relevant to his death. First of all, a teenager smoking weed is not exactly a shocking or scandalous revelation.
And the story about the stolen jewelry seems to have very little support, just going by the article you posted here. No arrest or police investigation into the matter and his family was never notified of the incident? I'll have to side with the family on this one and say that, unless something else comes up about it, it just sounds like a rumor.

And even if both things were true, Zimmerman would have no way of knowing those things. Do they say anything about Martin's character? Maybe. The more troubling of the two issues seems to have no evidence behind it, though. So, in the end, we're still just dealing with an unarmed kid that got shot by a man twice his size in "self defense."

How is that "correcting" anything I said? I was referring to the weight difference. It doesn't matter how tall you are if you're skin and bones, which Trayvon had to have been at that height and weight.

it's more a reaction to the initial depictions of the victim, a week ago someone forwarded me a page claiming facts about the case and all it said was that Martin was a straight A student


now in Zimmerman's 911 call he says he sees someone suspicious in an area that has had breaks ins, while that may not tie directly into the shooting it is unsettling to know that and then find objects that could be considered either stolen or tools used in a theft

Just saw this little tidbit and it kind of hammers home the reason why Zimmerman should be held criminally accountable for his actions, even if you go by his version of events.

The Case for George Zimmerman is the case against him

Missy, I will have to dissagree with you seeing as how I used to be that skinny, but I was athletic and I can easily see as a man that it is very possible for martin to effectively defend himself. If Zimmerman was all muscle then I would agree, but if it's just fat then it's hardly of any use against a taller opponent who has leverage.

You're ignoring the fact that there was never any police investigation of that incident, and his family was never informed that it happened. What I'm getting at here is that there is zero proof that ever even happened.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that, considering there is no objective way to determine which one of them had an advantage in a physical altercation. Even so, none of that would have mattered if Zimmerman hadn't deliberately ignored the instructions he was given by police to not follow the boy.

This pretty much sums up how I feel about it. I doubt Zimmerman is being honest, and even if he is, he still caused the events to unfold the way they did. It wouldn't be entirely surprising if Trayvon was the first to throw a punch. Some strange man was following him around and staring at him. Meanwhile, Zimmerman is the one bitching about "suspicious behavior."

Jesus, this "what if Trayvon..." conversation is ridiculous.

All of the arguments about Zimmerman/Trayvon and a possible confrontation are perfectly valid, and should be brought up in a court. AFTER ZIMMERMAN WAS ARRESTED. He wasn't. . . and that is the issue.

Missy we agree that Zimmerman should not have followed Martin. However you were claiming that his weight gave him a distinct advantage, I know from roughhousing and fighting that it does not.

Agreed.

Well people are trying to argue that Trayvon might have overpowered Zimmerman to the point where he needed to use the gun to save his own life. Which I found doubtful, but it's not exactly something anyone can prove either way.

I sort of take issue with your use of the word "know" here, considering we're not talking about your personal experience. We're talking about two people, neither of which are you.

but see that's the thing, neither can be proven at this point, but they arent out of the realm of possibility


btw has anyone seen the CNN facebook page, it scares me what some people in this country believe

also this was just posted


if these numbers(year wise) are correct then the networks are doing a disservice to the public

Also this has been disproven already. That is not trayvon in the second picture.

Missy, you are the one who was saying that Martin is at a disadvantage due to being lighter. He was not necessarily so. We don't know what happened but weight does not automatically give you an advantage over another human as you were claiming.

Well, no kidding. Zimmerman's 911 tape makes it clear that Zimmerman was acting aggressively. Zimmerman's 911 tape indicates strongly that Zimmerman had a negative prejudice against black people--if the FBI comes back and says different, well, we'll revisit the issue, but I heard it clearly enough without prompting. The other 911 tapes indicate that Trayvon was not the aggressor in the incident, which follows with Zimmerman's own tape. But despite all that, we're supposed to believe that it's an open field? Even if you want to give Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt, the doubt that exists lies against Zimmerman, not Trayvon.

On the topic of prejudice, that Zimmerman had black friends and participated in black ministries doesn't really mean much. It's an indicator, sure, that he wasn't a flag-waving KKK member. But prejudice exists in much subtler shades than simply hate/no hate.

It's more than possible for a lighter person to whoop the bejesus out of a heavier person. That doesn't mean that weight, even flab, isn't a major advantage in a fight. All else being equal, I'd take a pound advantage over a reach advantage any day.

I pointed out that Zimmerman was much larger that Trayvon. You're the one bringing your own personal experience into it and claiming that you know Zimmerman wouldn't have had a physical advantage. This is not a debate that will be settled; there is no objective way to determine who had an advantage at this point in time. I think based on the size difference that Zimmerman likely had the upper hand; you disagree. But stop trying to claim superior knowledge because you were once a similar size to Trayvon. That's ridiculous. I already said agree to disagree considering there will never be any evidence or proof on that specific issue, so it's ridiculous to continue trying to debate it with me.