TOPICS:
NOV 03, 2011 02:52 PM
Cash said:
Over-educated, overcomplicated reply to a very simple concept.
I suppose a simple +1 would have been more efficient, but there's no reason to get huffy about me agreeing with you. . .
NOV 03, 2011 03:17 PM
Towelly said:
Cash said:
Over-educated, overcomplicated reply to a very simple concept.
I suppose a simple +1 would have been more efficient, but there's no reason to get huffy about me agreeing with you. . .
I actually really appreciated what you said.
I get really sick of threads on child abuse turning into people discussing whether or not it's ok to spank your kids. They're not the same thing., and bringing your own views about spanking into discussions about what is clearly abuse diminishes the real thing. It makes it seem like perhaps this judge just didn't understand boundaries in relation to spanking, as opposed to the obvious verbal and psychological abuse that was going on as well. This isn't just a spanking that got out of hand, it's a father and husband who abuses his family. It would be like coming into a discussion about rape and saying, "Well, I don't have a problem with rough sex, but this guy went a bit too far."
I don't think your reply was "over-educated", whatever that means, and I think it needed to be said.
NOV 03, 2011 03:20 PM
Cash said:
Towelly said:
Cash said:
That's not discipline....that's savagery.
I think that's a critical distinction. Any time people discuss abuse in the abstract, it tends to become a discussion about what was done, and whether the what crosses a line. The problem is that even if you accept the idea that children could deserve being hit a good 20 times or so with a belt (and for the record, I do not. I'm just speaking hypothetically), it ignores the how and why of punishment. How does the beating, combined with the absolute physical domination and a man's telling his daughter that she doesn't deserve to be a part of the family instill the discipline that punishment is supposed to be about? Further, is doing that really commensurate to the crime of downloading a video game? And the answer to both, of course, is no.
Discussions about abuse have a disturbing tendency to become discussions about whether it is appropriate to discipline your child with force. It's critical to remember that this video doesn't address that question, because what that man did had nothing to do with discipline. It had to do with breaking her will. The fact that he did it with means I wouldn't use on an animal just makes the crime worse.
Over-educated, overcomplicated reply to a very simple concept.
Education bad!
NOV 03, 2011 03:32 PM
Here is an interview from the Today show with Hillary and her mother. And here is the full interview with the father cited in the Today Show interview.
NOV 03, 2011 04:23 PM
Towelly said:
Here is an interview from the Today show with Hillary and her mother. And here is the full interview with the father cited in the Today Show interview.
Statute of limitations has expired, it seems.
NOV 03, 2011 05:23 PM
Towelly said:
mydogfarted said:
Anyone know if this video would be admissible as evidence?
Depends significantly on the Texas Rules of Evidence , which are probably (like all states) variations on the Federal Rules of Evidence, and also what the wording of the Texas Statute they charge him under, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't come in under the Federal Rules. Basically, supposing I had the unenviable task of representing the judge in court, I could see making three basic objections: authentication, hearsay, and unfair prejudice. Authentication is the only objection anyone would take seriously, since that deals with the question of whether this tape is what it purports to be, or whether in the intervening years Hillary or someone else with an axe to grind against Judge Adams altered the tape. But I would expect each of these objections to be overruled.
Got it. Thanks.
NOV 03, 2011 06:16 PM
ajaxappleengle said:
No charges will be filed. Yay for the Texas Good Ol' Boy Network! ![]()
hope the feds offer more
NOV 03, 2011 06:29 PM
ajaxappleengle said:
No charges will be filed. Yay for the Texas Good Ol' Boy Network! ![]()
To be perfectly fair, the exact words used were: "Limitations prevents prosecution of any applicable criminal charge shown on said video." Which is legalese for saying that if the statute of limitations hadn't run, a great many very heavy books would have been thrown. As is, it does say that they are going to try and see if there are any charges that can be made in federal court, which might have a different statute of limitations attached to them.
It also doesn't cover unofficial actions that can be taken by the local bar association. Since they are an association that one joins voluntarily, they are not bound by law in what they can do, and I cannot imagine it looks good for the TX Bar Association to have a member who supervises child abuse cases with a video like that floating around. While they can't put him in jail, they could revoke his license to practice law, something that effectively fires him from his job as judge and prevents him from getting another job within the legal profession in Texas. I can't imagine that many other states would allow him to become a member of the bar with that kind of black mark on his record either.
NOV 03, 2011 08:32 PM
Judge Adams Statement
I do wonder why she waited 7 years, till after she had dropped out of school, and with her Father wanting the Mercedes returned, to decide that he finally needed the help that public exposure would provide. Why didn't she wait until her little sister was also done with his support ?
NOV 03, 2011 08:39 PM
1sailor said:
Judge Adams Statement
Hmm. Kind of interesting, but all the same, attacking the character of the victim doesn't strip her of her victim status. Which is clearly what he's trying to do. This is his roundabout way of saying "She deserved it." Even if she's being a manipulative bitch about the issue now (and I'm not saying she is), that doesn't change what happened 7 years ago.
NOV 03, 2011 11:10 PM
Towelly said:
ajaxappleengle said:
No charges will be filed. Yay for the Texas Good Ol' Boy Network! ![]()
To be perfectly fair, the exact words used were: "Limitations prevents prosecution of any applicable criminal charge shown on said video." Which is legalese for saying that if the statute of limitations hadn't run, a great many very heavy books would have been thrown.
That first statement was from the DA. The Chief of Police pretty miuch says that word for word.
NOV 03, 2011 11:30 PM
Calico said:
Towelly said:
Cash said:
Over-educated, overcomplicated reply to a very simple concept.
I suppose a simple +1 would have been more efficient, but there's no reason to get huffy about me agreeing with you. . .
I actually really appreciated what you said.
I get really sick of threads on child abuse turning into people discussing whether or not it's ok to spank your kids. They're not the same thing., and bringing your own views about spanking into discussions about what is clearly abuse diminishes the real thing. It makes it seem like perhaps this judge just didn't understand boundaries in relation to spanking, as opposed to the obvious verbal and psychological abuse that was going on as well. This isn't just a spanking that got out of hand, it's a father and husband who abuses his family. It would be like coming into a discussion about rape and saying, "Well, I don't have a problem with rough sex, but this guy went a bit too far."
I don't think your reply was "over-educated", whatever that means, and I think it needed to be said.
The rape analogy really drove the point home for me. I'm totally guilty of doing the "I think this is ok but this video crossed the line" just in this thread, and it DOES have nothing to do with the actual subject.
NOV 03, 2011 11:35 PM
1sailor said:
Judge Adams Statement
I do wonder why she waited 7 years, till after she had dropped out of school, and with her Father wanting the Mercedes returned, to decide that he finally needed the help that public exposure would provide. Why didn't she wait until her little sister was also done with his support ?
How does that even fucking matter when HE DID WHAT HE DID IN THE VIDEO? This isn't a he-said she-said issue, this is someone bringing up real abuse that happened. Who knows whether or not it is still happening?
And some victims take a long time to come out about their abuse, especially people victimized by someone from their childhood.
NOV 03, 2011 11:42 PM
Pom_felo said:
Towelly said:
ajaxappleengle said:
No charges will be filed. Yay for the Texas Good Ol' Boy Network! ![]()
To be perfectly fair, the exact words used were: "Limitations prevents prosecution of any applicable criminal charge shown on said video." Which is legalese for saying that if the statute of limitations hadn't run, a great many very heavy books would have been thrown.
That first statement was from the DA. The Chief of Police pretty miuch says that word for word.
Ah, I see. I suppose the article that I quoted was rooted too much in legalese for me to effectively translate. I will say that it sucks that the statute of limitations in that county are only 5 years for abuse, especially considering how long it takes some victims to work up the courage to come forward. I hope the feds can nail his ass, though.
NOV 04, 2011 12:39 AM
1sailor said:
Judge Adams Statement
I do wonder why she waited 7 years, till after she had dropped out of school, and with her Father wanting the Mercedes returned, to decide that he finally needed the help that public exposure would provide. Why didn't she wait until her little sister was also done with his support ?
Sailor, I see what you're saying, but this statement should if anything be considered the final nail in the coffin on whether Adams is abusive or merely gets carried away about his disciplining. I'll spoiler it for length below, but I'm actually going to walk through what this statement does and does not include to show exactly why this guy is doing little more than concern trolling for sympathy, and why that only corroborates the view that he's an abusive schmuck.
First, let's walk through what he does say one paragraph at a time. His first paragraph is devoted to explaining the video. And by explaining, I mean shifting the emphasis from William to Hillary. William was disciplining his 16-year old child. Hillary, "by her own televised and internet reported admissions", was engaging in criminal activity. And the video was posted for reasons other than what Hillary said, let's not forget that. But the fact that the "discipline" in question was 20 vicious strikes with a belt, forcing her to lay prone on her stomach to take said strikes, threatening to hit her in the face with said belt, and asking why she should belong to her family when she has the temerity to download a video game in a peer-to-peer file sharing arrangement? That's better left unmentioned.
The second paragraph notes that it is so regrettable that Hillary reported that she has cerebral palsy. Now I would argue that it's very relevant: if you have cerebral palsy, you have difficulty with movement and coordination, two traits that are incredibly useful if you, say, want to defend yourself against a battery. In other words, I don't have the slightest problem with Hillary noting that she's disabled, because all she's really saying is "Even if I had not been scared out of my wits and were mentally capable of fighting back, my body wouldn't have allowed me to do it." William Adams, however, never notes exactly why Hillary shouldn't have noted it, but the letter seems to imply that she's grasping for unearned sympathy. Remember this point, because it's going to come up again in the grand finale.
Paragraph three raises the question of why did Hillary keep the tape for all this time. Further, it notes that many people, anonymous of course, find her explanation troubling and incomplete. Left unspoken, of course, is the question why in the hell the things depicted on the tape ought to have happened at all, or why she would feel the need for videotaped evidence of it.
Paragraph four raises the exact same question as three, but provides more evidence that Hillary actually liked William. After all, after their divorce, Hillary insisted on living with William instead of Hallie, waited for five years after leaving to first mention the abuse, and (we are reminded) waited seven years to post the video. I think this is actually one of the major paragraphs, so I'll discuss what is left unsaid in greater detail later.
Paragraph five is the kicker: what actually happened is that Hillary has dropped out of college two classes shy of graduating. And William, full of tough love that he is, is simply unwilling to continue supporting her if she's going to be nothing but a college dropout who works part time at a video game store. In fact, we know that she's a wastrel because she . . . well, it's actually his Mercedes, but she has the temerity to drive it!
I could go on about the paragraphs where he details exactly how sorry he is that other people have to be involved in this terrible business, but I'll stop here. One doesn't have to look very hard to see what he is doing or what his strategy is. It's about sympathy: she's claiming the right to the sympathy of others. Because file sharing doesn't justify the "discipline" he inflicted on her. Because she couldn't have fought back even if she wanted to. Because maybe she still loved her father despite all that he's done, and she felt terrible ambiguity about whether she should use something that would utterly destroy his career. Because she, like many abuse victims, felt terrible shame about admitting her abuse to anyone. Because, by her own admission she still depends on him for support, support that is also by his own admission conditioned on his support, his approval, his control. In the world of abuse, this is known as emotional blackmail. Above all else, because no child deserves what happened to Hillary in that video. And William Adams cannot stand the fact that anyone other than William Adams is on the receiving end of sympathy.
We know that it's about sympathy and the fact that William Adams isn't getting it while Hillary is precisely because of what isn't said. At no point has he apologized; that's something he's done at some point in the past, over and done with, thank you very much. At no point has he demonstrated that he needs to change; why change, after all, when you're just disciplining your child. At no point has he recognized that the film shows a 16-year old disabled girl in absolute terror and agony, unable to do more than cower as she's beaten.
I actually want you to stop for a moment and think about that. A parent's natural reaction is to protect their child from pain and terror. I only have a sibling and not a child, but if I heard my brother cry out like Hillary is crying out in that film, my instinctual reaction is to grab the heaviest metal object I can find and beat whoever caused my brother to make that noise to death. That is not meant figuratively; I mean I would pulp the skull of anyone who inflicted that much injury on someone I love. I don't even have to think about what I would do in that kind of situation. But not only does William Adams not do that, not actually stop to realize that he's the one making her feel that way, he keeps right on doing it. And he makes no apologies for it. Because in William Adams' mind, William Adams hasn't done anything wrong.
If that doesn't convince you that William Adams isn't merely someone who gets carried away about the tough love, and is actually an abusive prick, I don't really know what will.
Again, just to be clear, I understand why someone unfamiliar with the games abusers play would make the mistake you did, 1sailor, but it is still a mistake.
NOV 04, 2011 03:21 AM
1sailor said:
Judge Adams Statement
I do wonder why she waited 7 years, till after she had dropped out of school, and with her Father wanting the Mercedes returned, to decide that he finally needed the help that public exposure would provide. Why didn't she wait until her little sister was also done with his support ?
Well, Towelly covered it at length, but what an absolutely transparent attempt at blame-shifting that statement is.
It's so far from a credible response to what was witnessed on the video that ... I wonder why it even merits discussion.
NOV 04, 2011 08:41 AM
Towelly said:
1sailor said:
Judge Adams Statement
I do wonder why she waited 7 years, till after she had dropped out of school, and with her Father wanting the Mercedes returned, to decide that he finally needed the help that public exposure would provide. Why didn't she wait until her little sister was also done with his support ?
Sailor, I see what you're saying, but this statement should if anything be considered the final nail in the coffin on whether Adams is abusive or merely gets carried away about his disciplining. I'll spoiler it for length below, but I'm actually going to walk through what this statement does and does not include to show exactly why this guy is doing little more than concern trolling for sympathy, and why that only corroborates the view that he's an abusive schmuck.
First, let's walk through what he does say one paragraph at a time. His first paragraph is devoted to explaining the video. And by explaining, I mean shifting the emphasis from William to Hillary. William was disciplining his 16-year old child. Hillary, "by her own televised and internet reported admissions", was engaging in criminal activity. And the video was posted for reasons other than what Hillary said, let's not forget that. But the fact that the "discipline" in question was 20 vicious strikes with a belt, forcing her to lay prone on her stomach to take said strikes, threatening to hit her in the face with said belt, and asking why she should belong to her family when she has the temerity to download a video game in a peer-to-peer file sharing arrangement? That's better left unmentioned.
The second paragraph notes that it is so regrettable that Hillary reported that she has cerebral palsy. Now I would argue that it's very relevant: if you have cerebral palsy, you have difficulty with movement and coordination, two traits that are incredibly useful if you, say, want to defend yourself against a battery. In other words, I don't have the slightest problem with Hillary noting that she's disabled, because all she's really saying is "Even if I had not been scared out of my wits and were mentally capable of fighting back, my body wouldn't have allowed me to do it." William Adams, however, never notes exactly why Hillary shouldn't have noted it, but the letter seems to imply that she's grasping for unearned sympathy. Remember this point, because it's going to come up again in the grand finale.
Paragraph three raises the question of why did Hillary keep the tape for all this time. Further, it notes that many people, anonymous of course, find her explanation troubling and incomplete. Left unspoken, of course, is the question why in the hell the things depicted on the tape ought to have happened at all, or why she would feel the need for videotaped evidence of it.
Paragraph four raises the exact same question as three, but provides more evidence that Hillary actually liked William. After all, after their divorce, Hillary insisted on living with William instead of Hallie, waited for five years after leaving to first mention the abuse, and (we are reminded) waited seven years to post the video. I think this is actually one of the major paragraphs, so I'll discuss what is left unsaid in greater detail later.
Paragraph five is the kicker: what actually happened is that Hillary has dropped out of college two classes shy of graduating. And William, full of tough love that he is, is simply unwilling to continue supporting her if she's going to be nothing but a college dropout who works part time at a video game store. In fact, we know that she's a wastrel because she . . . well, it's actually his Mercedes, but she has the temerity to drive it!
I could go on about the paragraphs where he details exactly how sorry he is that other people have to be involved in this terrible business, but I'll stop here. One doesn't have to look very hard to see what he is doing or what his strategy is. It's about sympathy: she's claiming the right to the sympathy of others. Because file sharing doesn't justify the "discipline" he inflicted on her. Because she couldn't have fought back even if she wanted to. Because maybe she still loved her father despite all that he's done, and she felt terrible ambiguity about whether she should use something that would utterly destroy his career. Because she, like many abuse victims, felt terrible shame about admitting her abuse to anyone. Because, by her own admission she still depends on him for support, support that is also by his own admission conditioned on his support, his approval, his control. In the world of abuse, this is known as emotional blackmail. Above all else, because no child deserves what happened to Hillary in that video. And William Adams cannot stand the fact that anyone other than William Adams is on the receiving end of sympathy.
We know that it's about sympathy and the fact that William Adams isn't getting it while Hillary is precisely because of what isn't said. At no point has he apologized; that's something he's done at some point in the past, over and done with, thank you very much. At no point has he demonstrated that he needs to change; why change, after all, when you're just disciplining your child. At no point has he recognized that the film shows a 16-year old disabled girl in absolute terror and agony, unable to do more than cower as she's beaten.
I actually want you to stop for a moment and think about that. A parent's natural reaction is to protect their child from pain and terror. I only have a sibling and not a child, but if I heard my brother cry out like Hillary is crying out in that film, my instinctual reaction is to grab the heaviest metal object I can find and beat whoever caused my brother to make that noise to death. That is not meant figuratively; I mean I would pulp the skull of anyone who inflicted that much injury on someone I love. I don't even have to think about what I would do in that kind of situation. But not only does William Adams not do that, not actually stop to realize that he's the one making her feel that way, he keeps right on doing it. And he makes no apologies for it. Because in William Adams' mind, William Adams hasn't done anything wrong.
If that doesn't convince you that William Adams isn't merely someone who gets carried away about the tough love, and is actually an abusive prick, I don't really know what will.
Again, just to be clear, I understand why someone unfamiliar with the games abusers play would make the mistake you did, 1sailor, but it is still a mistake.
Thank you for breaking it down so calmly and eloquently.
NOV 22, 2011 10:58 PM
Aaaaand suspended.
Why he's not outright out on his ass is beyond me, but I'll take what I can get at this point for this assclown.
NOV 23, 2011 11:19 AM
MissyMalice said:
thefreak said:
Aaaaand suspended.
Why he's not outright out on his ass is beyond me, but I'll take what I can get at this point for this assclown.
Would something like this even legally be grounds for firing?
I would like to know as well. They can no longer press charges (statute's up) but couldn't they see this as proof that he is not an appropriate person to judge illegal acts?











June
Canada
March 2004
NOV 03, 2011 02:48 PM