Proposition 8 in Federal Court in CA

CONTRARIAN: a person who takes a contrary position or attitude

As much as I don't want to feed the troll,

/donefeeding

I love it when people with privilege ask why those who are marginalized would want all the immense privilege they have, since they don't really appreciate it anyway. It's so awesome, and does nothing but make them sound smart and sensitive. No, really.

Newsflash, being gay isn't necessarily a binary or immediate orientation. Many people who've been married or had previous hetero relationships that, though they didn't last, produced children (such as I). Also, in vitro fertilization need not be for surrogate purposes only, lesbian couples may want to raise their own child and are perfectly capable of breeding, actually, they'd have double the capacity to carry a child. Additionally, fertility science has progressed to the point where it's possible for offspring to be produced from the combined genetics of two women and likely improvements in this field may one day make this a common and viable option.

As far as "contributing to the problem," I'd beg to differ. Millions of unplanned pregnancies happen all the time, but for same-sex couples, the choice of having children together is rarely unplanned (excepting rape, infidelity, or an open relationship - remember, some people are bi). The point is that decisions to plan a pregnancy are typically made by intelligent and financially secure couples who are able to provide a stable environment for raising a child. I'd also venture to say that they wouldn't be likely to have more than one or two children, and that such children are likely to be raised with a level of sexual awareness disinclining them to have many children as well.

Why marriage? I think enough people have already answered that question, I suggest you read their comments. If you don't agree with or understand their reasoning, fine, but just because you find the practice of marriage antiquated and unnecessary doesn't mean they'll agree with you either.

I can understand some arguments against marriage (many end up in divorce, some people are afraid of commitment or legal obligations, don't want any pressure to have children, etc.), yet I haven't seen any of these arguments being made by you. So far it's just been about your perception that marriage invites lawyers and judges into people's bedrooms, that being married leads to breeding (some married couples choose to not have children by the way), and that people need to spend a bunch of money on a blood diamond adorned ring (was this comment even necessary?).

Arguments about marriage aside, I get that you choose not participate in the status quo of society and are anti-marriage, anti-holiday, etc. You're an exceptional individual, however your opinions are your own and despite your disagreements, I've failed to see any valid reasons for them.

Bear in mind that this topic is about Proposition 8, an unconstitutional and discriminatory law that prevents citizens from exercising the rights and freedoms commonly enjoyed by others. Many of us disagree with this law and are focused on seeing it and other similar laws repealed or struck down in the courts. In fact, your opinionated views about marriage in general are somewhat like those who would deny same-sex couples the right to marry and distract from the more pressing debate at hand. Wouldn't you agree that despite one's personal choice to not engage in the liberties enjoyed by most, that others should not be denied such liberties simply because they are somehow different?

+1

Plus fucking one, and said better than I could.

For crying out loud. Sorry about the typo.

You don't "do" marriage? Why, because you already did?

Pardon me. Added the essentially. Together 14 years, never married, blah blah blah (like it's any of your business.)

FellOnEarth is right, I have derailed the prop 8 conversation enough. I'm done. I apologize.

Get. The. Ducks.

And conversely, I've never been married and I find lawyers in my bed all the time. False correlation, buddy!

Thank you.

What a preposterous argument. "What I'd like to know is, why should we invite having laws, about things, affect us in any way? Fuck laws, man! And things! Fuck those, too!"

I would just like to address this tangent by noting that having lawyers in ones' bedroom is not necessarily a bad thing. Ahem.

I told you NO!!!

Well said, and congrats, Otoki.

+1

But I think it's kind of sad that a troll has managed to make this a thread about straight people defending their marriages, instead of gay people's right to marry.

True, this thread also made me really think some more on how absolutely narrow-minded so much of this country is regarding the traditions of a wedding and the grief one is likely to encounter from some relatives and friends when your wedding strays even slightly away from their ideas of "how it should be".

I was married by a good friend in a secular wedding ceremony while we were all dressed like pirates. My wife and I agreed to get married in a casual conversation one day; no grand proposal or engagement ring. And our wedding rings are just simple, hard to damage titanium bands (which says more to me as a symbol of our marriage than some huge gawdy jewel). Happily, most people had the good taste to withhold any comments or ctiticisms (at least around me), but I know there were more people that were a little uneasy with the events than spoke up about it. I was kind of hoping some people would speak their minds to me, I wanted to ask them where my pirate wedding ranked on the "Sanctity of Marriage" scale of 1-10; 1 being a huge cathedral-style ceremony with a full Mass at the beginning and 10 being "The gays are ruining it for all of us!!!11"

9 is now "The gays are ruining it for all of us!!" and 10 is now "Pirate Wedding"

Seriously though, I think its awesome

California same-sex marriage ban deemed unconstitutional

Of those who are against same-sex marriage....one of the most common themes I see in their dissent is a resentment towards what they call "the gay agenda". As if their fight is somehow disingenuous because they have an agenda....or that having an agenda is a BAD thing. Of COURSE they have an agenda. They want the same rights as everyone else...and their agenda is to achieve that.