san francisco is populated by assholes

I understand. I was just being over-dramatic.

The United States was one of the first countries to allow certain rights/liberties, the right to vote being one of those upheld by our constitution.

If voting were manditory it would no longer be a right but an obligation. Losing the right to vote would be losing one of our most precious freedoms and that's something I'm not comfortable with. In having the right to vote, we are also given the right NOT to vote if one so chooses. So that's what makes voting that much more precious and important.

I think education and a national holiday for voting are great ideas to help increase voter turnout and appreciation.

Is that just for absentee ballots or does everyone get a ballot that you can mail in?

In Oregon everyone gets a mail-in ballot.

Ya, that's right. Lets give $300 or $400 to people who can't spend it on actual housing since it so expensive to live there.

You want to take a guess what the homeless do with their $400? Here I'll let you know; booze and drugs. Any person who thinks other wise is a complete moron and completely clueless about how the world really works.

In a free society you have to allow people to be ignorant, however it would seem to make some sense that if that act in such a way, they should have to face the consequences. With this in mind it would seem that social safety nets should be removed so as to make people internalize the costs (fiscally and socially) of their actions.

Richard Posner did an actual economic analysis of the market value of a vote and came up with a ballpark figure of twenty dollars. He was later pleased to discover that was the price votes were being sold for on eBay.

[Edited on Dec 10, 2003 by cagnazzo]

It's all John Howard's fault, that filthy red.

That's a practical objection. The in-principle objection is that you should have an equal right to not vote as to vote -- and the state should not have the right to compel you to cast a vote.

Practically, I think it's an even call. The US (voluntary voting) elected Dubya, and we (compulsory voting) elected John Howard. I don't think either of us can be proud.

Ideologically, I've had different views at different times. I'm not one for giving the state more powers, and more reasons to punish us for stuff, but I'm of the view now that compulsory voting isn't too bad an idea. Next year I might think differently again.

I may be mistaken but didn't I already point out to you that your homless jihad was based in nothing more than your own personaly morality play fantasy.

That was you right?

It's funny, but I always know what you're going to say on any CE topic before you say it.

And I usually have a pretty good idea of the tone of voice you're saying it in too.

I seem to remember pointing that very thing out as such a person at that point in time. Didn't seem to penetrate.

Wow. I haven't a clue what the original topic was (a scary square-jawed man?) but by the time I get here I feel like i know what's going to happen next.

Shame I lost my faith in rational humanity on the way....

They also have Georgie Girl in NZ. Ex-prostitute and transgendered elected in a conservative rural district.

I'd suggest making it mandatory to show up at a polling station during election day but not actually making it mandatory to vote, it is a bit of a compromise.

The other thing is that studies of voting behavior tend to show the trend to be people that have higher education level are the ones that more often fail to vote. So the criticism of having all the yokels show up is a little unfounded.

[Edited on Dec 11, 2003 by Sparagmos]

Mandatory voting would take away freedom of choice. Those who wish to participate in government should be able to do so. Those who do not with to, should not be forced.
Personally, I don't like others telling me what they think I should do, because, they may be wrong (read: usually are). I am quite capable of deciding for myself, and consider it to be insulting when others presume to tell me otherwise. Inform me, please. Command me, no.

hadn't checked this thread in a while. had no idea someone would say something as dumb Mullen did. oh, i'm chococat.
s5 is right. the exception, in my case, is that I was homeless, received cash, and spent it on food on those days that i couldn't get food for free. and do not forget that many shelters, unless they are long-term Christian rehab places, charge you a dollar or two to take a shower. which is important if you're homeless and working. not to mention a place to do your laundry. and public transport when the shelter runs out of tokens (which is often). any many other reasons.

[Edited on Dec 21, 2003 by TheLittlePrince]

I disagree with Mullen's broad generalization. However, s5, go to the intersection of Turk and Taylor or Ellis and Jones on the first of the month. It is a varitable street fair of vice. Then go on the thirteenth of the month. Still a bunch of unscrupulous folks out buy far less. Also, violent and property crimes go up as the money gets spent.

I forget what the figures are (I'm sure somebody on this thread has them handy) but most studies of the homelss in SF show a really high amount of drug and alcohol addiction. I don't think this makes these people worthless but a lot of the money we give to this population goes to street level dealers and shitty corner liquor stores. I don't know what the solution is. I just want a plan implemented because the amount of drug related crime and homelessness in our city is truly revolting. I don't know if Matt's plan would have worked better than Gavin's. I don't really care either. Let's get something going. Anything.

California continues to suffer from the term limited smarmy little shit named Willie Brown. A more self absorbed arrogant politician would be hard to find. His spectre will haunt CA long after he has merged with the dirt.

Recently there was a series of articles on SF's homeless problem on the Chronicle's website:

http://www.sfgate.com/gate/special/pages/2003/homeless/

The first article is disturbing.

Is that really his name?

"San Francisco is populated by assholes."

For not voting?

Whatever you say, lady...

manditory voting sounds good, but in reality the only people benefiting from this would be some guys out in the middle of the USA who market a tech gadget that is an electric version of "eene-minie-mo."