Do girls hate girls more than boys hate girls?

I thought you were some kind Cyborg.Because boys definitely like Robots.

Mmmm. Robots.

Other women are competition.

I really think it's that simple.

Being bisexual myself, I don't quite see it that way, but then I'm not that bitchy unless Aunty Flow is on her flight here.

*sigh*

Boys hate girls now?

You mean the boys that have grasped extreme personal hygiene and shopping all day without complaining, yeah?

GIRLS WHO ARE BOYS
WHO LIKE BOYS TO BE GIRLS
WHO DO BOYS LIKE THEY'RE GIRLS
WHO DO GIRLS LIKE THEY'RE BOYS
ALWAYS SHOULD BE SOMEONE YOU REALLY LOVE

I apologize for not reading all of the posts very carefully, but I want to respond anyway.
Pointing towards advertisements, harsh relationships, culture, society, etc. as being the real source of degradation of woman, would be completely correct and completely wrong at the same time. Feminist issues are, just like many issues, at their source--spiritual issues.
Laws can be set to protect from rape, innapropriate sexual conduct, etc. Moral "laws" can be set by oganized religions and society for how people should act, the people actions who abide be these rules are in some(many) cases just that, and act. They see an image that they should abide by, and contort themselves into that image, instead of adressing real issues inside themselves, wether ugly or pretty, and transforming themelves in the process.
Yes, commercials degrade woman to sell products. Yes, woman degrade woman, Yes men degrade woman. Yes, many organized religions degrade woman. Yes, society at large can be degrading to woman.
But, the source always was and still is a spiritual issue. It comes to down to the spiritual, mental, and emotional maturity of an individual. Most organized relgions do not provide for the cosmology or spiritual framework to understand woman or men, only empty frameworks of physical standards of actions, dressing standards, and tak-on attitudes.
If we are not willing to give an extended effort to understanding ourselves and the world around us, then good chances are we are going to at some points degrade ourselves and the people around us, and if this is our case, then pointing the finger anywhere would be useless.
However, as far as external sources, I think the supression of the Divine Feminine back in the beginnings of the Roman Church are partly to blame. The Pistis Sophia and Sophia teachings were supressed and only the Divine Masculine aspects were revealed. A lot of unique divine aspects of the feminine were understood at this time, and shunned by the Roman Church. Actually, some of the greatest teachings of this time were supressed, only leaving the bible, slaughtered and horribly translated, to educate the "upright" citizen. The feminine polarities run so deep withing the fabric of life, that not discussing them for so long or having them tought in the correct manner, had some definite consequences. So, yes, society produced a pathetic image of woman AND men, but why was this image produced, and supported?
We are all brought up in a world of radical alienation and seperation from authentic reality, and I would say it is this seperation from our true nature that causes our misunderstandings of masculism and feminism. Redeeming oneself from an unconscious existence in a unconscious world, means dealing with these issues. Though I dont really support or care about readical feminist movements, who in my opinion do a pretty good job of degrading the opposite sex and their own in many cases, I do believe that we all have a lot to learn from the feminine.

- Audio LectureThe Sorrow of Sophia: Feminine Divine Image of Suffering

[Edited on Dec 08, 2003 by alhim]

Hmm. I regard it as an ethical one. I get worried when ethical issues become contingent on "spiritual" belief systems.

See, now I think you're just romanticising women, in a way that's potentially counter-productive. This Divine Feminine thing sounds like a grandiose version of "little girls are made of sugar and spice and all things nice".

How to accessorise?

Ethical used in this way is another way of saying "Act some way because it is socially appropriate. Instead of the Spiritual, which would be, act this way because you truly feel that way, according to your mental emotional and spiritual experience. Spiritual in the real case, would be acting genuinely. Spiritual experience does not rely on belief, but direct experience and transformation. I get worried when spiritual becomes confused with religious, which I think is how you are referring to it. If ethical issues became contingent on religion I would be worried too. I was referring to the responsibility of EACH INDIVIDUAL to discover the heart and soul of why people should be treated a certain way, instead of relying on a external code to follow.

Absolutely not. I have had relationships with some incredibly scandalous and even shallow and manipulative woman. There are plenty. There is a Divine Feminine as well as Divine Masculine. These are concepts, symbols, archetypes that communicate larger truths that are relevant to all human life, not just woman. What the Divine Feminine "sounds like" to you is irrelevant, and looking at it from this superficial angle is counterproductive. If you want to delve into it at more than this superficial angle, then you would learn a lot, and in the process face some harsh reality that is anything but sugar and spice.
In the same manner, if you read "The Exegesis on the Soul" about woman, from a superficial angle, it is a boring melodrama. But if you see its symbology, you can see how the feminine relates symbolicly to the human soul and the experience of the soul in the physical body.

I accept we're using words different ways. I'm still not sure why you choose to use the words you use in the way you choose to use them.

Example: you use "spirituality" and say how this shouldn't be confused with "religion". I've heard that distinction drawn many times, and I'm never quite sure what distinction the speaker has in mind. Either spirituality means something "other-worldly", or "paranormal", or "supernatural" or whatever -- or it just means something to do with the human spirit, in which case we're really just putting a fancy label on emotions and feelings and values. In the latter case, the "non-religious" case, the use of the word "spirituality" has no particular significance. You could use "emotional" instead.

See, I don't know what this even means, in any operational sense. I mean, I could "discover" that the certain way you should be treated is to belittle you because you seem like a wacked-out hippie.

I'm NOT belittling you, by the way, I'm taking this conversation quite seriously. My ethics aren't simply an external code, but they're influenced by external codes and value systems that I have been exposed to. I don't think you can presume there's some magical, natural, "spiritual" code that's separate from the conditioning we all get from elsewhere.

Of course. I have experienced plenty of shallow and manipulative women in my life too. I wasn't disputing that.

And while I don't mind a good healthy archetype, I baulk at anything that sounds like an idealised Platonic form. Or a "spiritualised ideal" of what women and men would be if we weren't, well, human. We ARE human. Let's suck it up and deal with it and not pine for the unattainable.

Hahahaha. I await your illuminating treatise on harsh reality. The world has seemed so kind to me up until now. You mean it's mean out there?

I was aiming for something that, by your reply, I can see you took completely the wrong way. No big deal, I didnt communicate it in the best manner as the English language is a poor one, when it comes to subtelty and depth.
Being as that I just looked at your profile, and saw that you have the coolest profile picture that anyone has every had on suicidegirls.com I can no longer argue. I will simply quote George Carlin, just as a samurai warrior who stabs himself through.
"Hey, which one of you cute little cupcakes wants to come home and cook me a nice meal and give me a blowjob!" "blowjob!" Oh. Oh, that pisses them off. You want to piss off a feminist, call her a cum-catcher. That'll get her attention."

It's possible. Glad you like the pic, and the George Carlin comeback was a killer.

*clears throat*

*pauses*

*takes a run up*

I LOVE YOU NIXON!!!!!

*bows*

*exits stage left*

I love blowjobs and feminists. But I hate being called cupcake.

*adds to his list of things to adore about the unravled one*

Oi Veigh. This is a heavy subject.

I stopped pointing fingers, because once you find a culprit you can't do anything about it, except maybe identify something to hate... but where would that get you?

I think it's better to dislike and distrust everyone atleast a little bit. Hate is a hard emotion to deal with.

I sympathize with a lot of feminist points of view, but at the same time, I think there's too much hate amongst themselves to get their point across. My ex girlfriend had a lot of strong feminist opinions, and it would drive me nuts because while she'd preach about how women are treated unfairly, she'd discriminate against girls that she didn't even know and deride them as sluts, whores, phonies or whatever.

Blah... I'm having brainfarts like there's no tomorrow. so I'm gonna post this even though it's not done.