Do girls hate girls more than boys hate girls?

From the football thread:

It says something about how 14 women see themselves in society, too.

Blaming the organisers of something like this seems to disassociate any responsiblity to the women involved with it. Besides the 14 (or more players), how many of the behind the scenes people (tech, legal, etc.), are women?

I suppose this could be viewed as a feminist issue, but the reality is, it's a commercial issue. If people didn't like it, they wouldn't pay for it and it wouldn't happen again.

The issue, then, may be if we all had the same amout of money and stuff, would we give a fuck if we were man, woman, black or white? Does it all boil down to money?

Honestly, I'm not sure. I was in line for a movie yesterday and there was a cut-out of the daughter from '24', for the movie 'Girl Next Door'. A mixed gender group behind me were making a few comments and the guys' seem to run along a few comments about her ass, how she looked so much older than the guy on the cut-out, and a couple other fairly harmless things.

The women, though, were fucking brutal. They were much more personal toward the actress (called her a skank, etc.).

<<Generalizing alert>> This isn't the only time I've heard stuff like this and certainly not the only time it's happened. Women cut each other for their bodies, their intelligence, hair color, jobs, choice of boyfriends, skills in bed, etc.

Women seem much more brutal to women than men. Men beat women up and rape them and do some horrible things, but, it seems, anyway, that women seem to hate each other as a gender.

I can guarantee you while the men watching this might be thinking adolescent fuck fantasies or making ass comments, the women out there will be the ones cutting them down for being 'whores', 'skanks' and 'sluts'.



[Edited on Dec 06, 2003 by Mqx]

whew - you shouuld've included a link to the football thread, cos i'm not afmiliar with it.
so i can only comment on the last half of your post.
men raping women is worse, hands down. but women do also murder women. but i think either is not the important part of your statement.
i've noticed this before and it creeps me out. women ARE way more vicious about other women than men are about other men. i think most men base little or no self esteem n how they look, so they're less threatened by it. actually, it's probably that men don't have to contend with their SO's eyes wandering...
nevermind, i haven't thought this all the way thru yet.

jesus, Is there anything in this world that ISN"T DEGRADING TO WOMEN?

I think they hate girls more than guys hate other guys. Did that make sense?

Some random thoughts from the comments above:

Morgan: I don't think ultimate equality will ever exist between groups so long as they see themselves as distinct from others. But I think you're on the right track, because whether there will or won't be is of minimal importance... it's pretty much the struggle towards something better, in just my estimation, that is of importance, so rock on with your bad self.

MQX: Throwing blame for something towards 14 (or more) individuals for their participation in something that takes place amidst the larger context of social relations, without pointing out the complicity of those who make up the system these folks operate in, is also kind of unfair. So is fragmenting the -isms of "feminism" and "consumerism." when speaking of broader issues within a society (although to be fair, I think "commerical" was the term used.) I think this fragmentation is useful in thinking matters through, but for understanding what to do about them, tends to make folks a bit myopic in their approach. How people obtain the means to reproduce their existence... how they manage to survive and manage to pass their way of life, their histories, their accomplishments on... these determine the ideas in which people operate. I don't think ideas of justice and fairness... ideas of right and wrong... i don't think these come from the gods... I think they come from how you manage to live (a process that occurs within a definite social context) And perhaps so long as folks (women in this case, other groups in other cases) find themselves able to operate in a system that prioritizes one concern over another, those within that system will be more prone to do the same. (If you are what you eat, then what impact does how you manage to live have on what you are?) I don't think it all inevitably boils down to money... but I think it could, ultimately, if the only way you could carry on was to get some.

SUN: You point out that to you, it seems like women are placing more importance on the way they look (here), but doesn't that have a lot to do with relational experiences? with the society in which they exist? Little Johhny Dunne said no man is an island, and I'd argue that no woman is either... I'm not so sure the absence/presence of a Y chromosome makes such a priority of personal apprearance happen. I think that we're all responsible for that... Further, I'd have to put more credit on the female side of the equation for challenging the notions of what it means to be a (good) woman, but once again, don't want to attribute that to some high-minded trait granted women through the DNA... i'd tend to think that like most action, it stems out of self-interest. (maybe even "enlightened" self-interest if I truly understand/accept the distinction)

Eraser: I'm assuming that was a joke, so my response will be a joke too: No. there is nothing that isn't degrading to women.

[Edited on Dec 06, 2003 by Politrix]

For the life of me I cannot imagine you not being able to get a date.


incredulous

[Edited on Dec 06, 2003 by BatAttaK]

Would it not be easier to just say generally women are more bitchy about other women, than men are about other men.


[Edited on Dec 06, 2003 by JosephSco]

I agree men are as competitive and vindictive about other men but we generally either say it to their face or keep it to ourselves, lots of women I know are bitchy about other women even their friends behind their backs.

yes, i meant that in a joke way, ah, but the effects of the weeeeed man..yipes!

but yah , I do think girls can be a bit like 's when it comes to other 's...

heehee

(ducks head and runs outta this here thread)

Truey true.

Now to be clear on a couple points, I haven't placed blame or even an opinion about that whole football issue. I place it in the let grown-ups play category. I give the women that participate on all levels of that event the same benefit of the doubt that I give anyone here (including the SGs) and that is an adult is responsible for their own actions. While those models may have felt financial pressure or whateve, ultimately no one pointed a gun to their head.

As for the women v women issue, I just finished a book called Catfight by Leora Tanenbaum, which, while not the end all be all, made some very interesting, and I think accurate, reports about the differences in the way men and women compete.

There have also been studies showing that, while the old boy white men are still holding their ground, some of the limitations of women in business are set in place by other women who don't want to mentor their hard earned position.

And according to a couple reports I've seen (which, actually, it would be interesting to hear from the women on this board) women seem to prefer men bosses.

(any misspellings are due to anticipation for the giant steak about done in my broiler. G*d bless the Alberson's 12 hour meat sale !)

PS Politrix, thanks!

I think it comes down to women being generally more capable than men at communicating with language.Guy's can be just as cruel as women,it just comes out as physical violence "Thag angry,Thag smash!!!"
Women,on the other hand,will attack verbally in order to humilate and denigrate their target.
As long as the recipient is no longer a threat to the male or female, then both methods work to make them feel secure about themselves.

Exactly. And this explains why I'd rather have a male boss. Physical violence is never tolerated in the workplace. Backstabbing, cruel, behind the back, verbal bashing, however is not only tolerated but often expected from other women.

My observation about the difference between having a female or a male boss was this: if you have a male boss, he's either always an asshole, or always a nice guy. You figure it out and you know how to deal with him. If you have a female boss, she could easily be an asshole in the morning and nice in the afternoon. So you never know whether she's your "buddy" or whether you should avoid her. That's just my experience, anyway.

Same here. Maybe my female boss could do us all a favor and wear a sign with either a happy face or a frowny face, so I'd know whether or not it was a good time to ask for the institution of Trouserless Tuesdays.

that's hillarous Xyth.

yeah, but you're an ugly man-whore, so there

:kidding:

keith - in that case, my boss is a woman who can grow a fierce goatee.

I agree with a few different points above. But I have noticed that, culturally speaking, putting other people down and ragging on them finding insults to spew that demean others in original new ways is like a national pastime. All the gameshows, radio talk shows, politics, etc, that seems to be the only focus. I think it is a countrywide phenomenon regardless of gender.
heh heh,
I said country.