Hell, name a major religious figure who believes in gay marriage and isn't a Unitarian.
There are entire churches that support it, most notably the United Church of Christ, to which Obama belongs.
finish the quote, man:
Hooraydiation said:
I'm sure you'll come up with at least one, but I doubt they'll have nearly as many charitable acts to their name as Warren, to say nothing of how influential they may be.
i maintain that Warren's stances on social issues was the reason for his being offered the chance to perform the inaugural invocation. not to piss off the liberals, but to bring the conservatives to the table for the purposes of getting their help fixing the country--including movement on more progressive social policies.
Hell, name a major religious figure who believes in gay marriage and isn't a Unitarian.
There are entire churches that support it, most notably the United Church of Christ, to which Obama belongs.
finish the quote, man:
Hooraydiation said:
I'm sure you'll come up with at least one, but I doubt they'll have nearly as many charitable acts to their name as Warren, to say nothing of how influential they may be.
i maintain that Warren's stances on social issues was the reason for his being offered the chance to perform the inaugural invocation. not to piss off the liberals, but to bring the conservatives to the table for the purposes of getting their help fixing the country--including movement on more progressive social policies.
I think, I hope, you are right. Perhaps BO and his team have decided this is the bigot they are most likely to bring around to a more humane agenda? WHo can in turn aide in persuading other extremists?
I said that you would be able to name someone, but that they wouldn't have as much standing or influence as Warren.
You then went on to name someone who is only noteworthy because of his sexual orientation.
Maybe you forgot the entirety of my original post because you chose to only quote half of it?
Rick Warren is the pastor of a California megachurch.
Gene Robinson is a bishop. Their noteworthiness is a matter of opinion; if anything, Warren is as noteworthy for his hateful and outrageous statements and views on gays as for anything else.
Stiles said:
...Warren is as noteworthy for his hateful and outrageous statements and views on gays as for anything else.
[citation needed]
it seems to me that he's known for quite a few different things aside from his stance on homosexuality. though i'll certainly agree that his stance on homosexuality seems to be all anyone is focusing on.
That depends on who you're asking. I'd wager most americans hadn't heard of Warren before this happened, just as most americans hadn't heard of Robertson before he was made Bishop.
Stiles said:
That depends on who you're asking. I'd wager most americans hadn't heard of Warren before this happened, just as most americans hadn't heard of Robertson before he was made Bishop.
Actually, The Purpose Driven Life was a huge bestseller, selling over 30 million copies (it inched out The Very Hungry Caterpillar and Goodnight Moon...douche). The book has a lot of clout in the Christian community, and many, many people have read it (though admittedly, I did not put two and two together until motorfirebox pointed out he was the author).
^^^ which illustrates my point. If you are not a seriously religious Christian of a certain stripe, Warren probably did not register on your radar prior to Obama picking him. Choosing Warren is a sop to that minority, not a choice to appeal to the greater population.
I said that you would be able to name someone, but that they wouldn't have as much standing or influence as Warren.
You then went on to name someone who is only noteworthy because of his sexual orientation.
Maybe you forgot the entirety of my original post because you chose to only quote half of it?
Rick Warren is the pastor of a California megachurch.
Gene Robinson is a bishop. Their noteworthiness is a matter of opinion; if anything,
Over 400,000 pastors and church leaders from around the world have attended a seminar or conference led by Warren and other pastors who share best practices as they seek to be more effective in fulfilling the Great Commission and the Great Commandment. The term "Purpose Driven" refers to these pastors' attempt to balance the five purposes of Worship, Fellowship, Discipleship, Ministry, and Evangelism in their churches.
Over the years, Christian leaders in 162 countries have used materials which stem from this movement. Through this organization over 400,000 ministers and priests have been trained worldwide in his theology and practical methods. Some 189,000 church leaders subscribe to Ministry Toolbox, the weekly newsletter.
Warren also moderated the unofficial first debate of the presidential race.
Stiles said:
That depends on who you're asking. I'd wager most americans hadn't heard of Warren before this happened, just as most americans hadn't heard of Robertson before he was made Bishop.
you are very much mistaken. Warren has been very popular with a lot of christians, both seriously religious and otherwise, for quite some time. again, he wrote a bestselling book, he has hosted both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton at forums he put together, and he moderated a widely-watched debate between Obama and McCain during the election.
Stiles said:
Choosing Warren is a sop to that minority, not a choice to appeal to the greater population.
christians--even christians who have heard of Warren--are not a minority in the US. which is why tapping Warren was a good move.
Stiles said:
That depends on who you're asking. I'd wager most americans hadn't heard of Warren before this happened, just as most americans hadn't heard of Robertson before he was made Bishop.
you are very much mistaken. Warren has been very popular with a lot of christians, both seriously religious and otherwise, for quite some time. again, he wrote a bestselling book, he has hosted both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton at forums he put together, and he moderated a widely-watched debate between Obama and McCain during the election.
Stiles said:
Choosing Warren is a sop to that minority, not a choice to appeal to the greater population.
christians--even christians who have heard of Warren--are not a minority in the US. which is why tapping Warren was a good move.
Perhaps you'd like to back all that up with more than just your assertion?You're making some big assumptions.
In one recent study, about half of the people in the United States in the year 2000 reported they were adherents of an organized religious belief system.[1] Depending on how the question is asked, some 25-45 percent of the population report that they see themselves as either Born-Again Christians, or, in the broadest sense of the word, Christian "Evangelicals."
Note that the trend in America is steadily down for organized religious participation, so those numbers from 2000 are probably optimistic for this year.
Stiles said:
Perhaps you'd like to back all that up with more than just your assertion?You're making some big assumptions.
motorfirebox said:
he wrote a bestselling book, he has hosted both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton at forums he put together, and he moderated a widely-watched debate between Obama and McCain during the election.
i've already provided links for these. as for your study, Warren's popularity is hardly limited to evangelicals or born-again christians. Warren is a peace offering to conservatives of almost every stripe--and despite their recent losses, it would be a mistake to believe that conservatives are a voiceless minority.
In one recent study, about half of the people in the United States in the year 2000 reported they were adherents of an organized religious belief system.
Also, I never said anything about conservatives, and I never suggested anyone was a "voiceless minority". Do try to stay on point.
In one recent study, about half of the people in the United States in the year 2000 reported they were adherents of an organized religious belief system.
Also, I never said anything about conservatives, and I never suggested anyone was a "voiceless minority". Do try to stay on point.
What's the point you're trying to make with this quote?
In one recent study, about half of the people in the United States in the year 2000 reported they were adherents of an organized religious belief system.
Also, I never said anything about conservatives, and I never suggested anyone was a "voiceless minority". Do try to stay on point.
i'm aware you never said anything about conservatives. you were mistaken to not say anything about conservatives, because Warren's appeal to conservatives was--i believe--the reason Obama selected him.
nor did i misread. you said half of the US was involved in organized religion, and that 24-45% of those self-identified as evangelical or born-again. you stated this in support of the assertion that Warren was not a publicly-known or popular figure prior to his selection as the inaugural invocator. i'm hardly leaping to conclusions, if i'm led to believe that you're saying that Warren is only popular with evangelical or born-again christians. if that's not what meant, perhaps you could clarify.
moreover, i'm not sure what to make of the figures you're providing. according to a CUNY study in 2001, 81% of the population self-identified as religious (which is different from being involved in organized religion, which may be where the disparity is stemming from), and 77% self-identified as some variation on christian.
again: christians--even christians who have heard of Warren--are not a minority in the US. which is why tapping Warren was a good move.
Stiles said:
That depends on who you're asking. I'd wager most americans hadn't heard of Warren before this happened, just as most americans hadn't heard of Robertson before he was made Bishop.
Actually, The Purpose Driven Life was a huge bestseller, selling over 30 million copies (it inched out The Very Hungry Caterpillar and Goodnight Moon...douche). The book has a lot of clout in the Christian community, and many, many people have read it (though admittedly, I did not put two and two together until motorfirebox pointed out he was the author).
THANK YOU, FearTheReaper. I've been pissed that no one else seems to be pissed about this choice for a long time now. I'm so fucking tired of hearing, "let it slide."
Sheepnumber97245 said:
THANK YOU, FearTheReaper. I've been pissed that no one else seems to be pissed about this choice for a long time now. I'm so fucking tired of hearing, "let it slide."
motorfirebox
Pittsburgh, PA
March 2004
DEC 27, 2008 11:55 AM