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atomicant

atomicant

Portland, OR
June 2003

NOV 20, 2008 12:58 PM

n8tvegrl said:
And to Otoki and Atomicant... I wasn't having a pissing contest about anything- just making it clear that racism is alive and well here and to say it is not prevalent was offensive to me considering my own experience.



you're right, racism is alive and well in america. i think one of the real differences between racism here and in other parts of the worlds is that racism tends to be less open and more, dare i even say it, institutionalized here. it's a huge problem, and even though we've made a lot of progress in the last few years/decades, there is still a lot of work to do.

i wasn't trying to be offensive, and if i was, i apologize.

Otoki

Otoki

SUICIDEGIRL

Minnesota, USA

NOV 20, 2008 04:25 PM

atomicant said:

n8tvegrl said:
And to Otoki and Atomicant... I wasn't having a pissing contest about anything- just making it clear that racism is alive and well here and to say it is not prevalent was offensive to me considering my own experience.



you're right, racism is alive and well in america. i think one of the real differences between racism here and in other parts of the worlds is that racism tends to be less open and more, dare i even say it, institutionalized here. it's a huge problem, and even though we've made a lot of progress in the last few years/decades, there is still a lot of work to do.

i wasn't trying to be offensive, and if i was, i apologize.



Once again, I really respect you patience and even temper.

dangerman

dangerman

I'm lost
December 2005

NOV 20, 2008 05:36 PM

Racism in the US and other parts of the world is miles and miles apart, and not just literally. Granted, the atrocities of the frontier days, the brutal lynchings and overt physicality of segregation (separate water fountains, buses, etc.) was as visceral a part of our history as you can get, but by and large the racism we see today in our own communities pales in comparison to what goes on in other regions, where it is not widely reported.
Feel like you were discriminated against today?
Not long ago, in this wondrous part of the world, a little girl ( about 12 I think) strolled into a local police station one morning and walked up to the front desk. None of the officers paid her much mind, and failed to notice the vest of explosives she wore, custom fit to her small frame. The bomb didn't detonate as planned, and luckily a contingent of US soldiers was stopping in just after for a weekly chat with the local policemen. After a few hours, they were able to get the bomb off her safely, and even traced it back to the bomb maker, her father. He was only caught because he kept calling the phone attached to the bomb on his daughter to detonate it, and they traced it backed while he was on the line. He wanted these men, a different denomination of the same religion with slightly different ethnic backgrounds, dead so badly he was going to erase his daughter from the Earth without thinking twice.

petepolly

petepolly

Antarctica
August 2008

NOV 20, 2008 06:48 PM

MisterGone said:

petepolly said:

n8tvegrl said:
I think they don't care much about racial issues... it's a holy war to them and they are just using this opportunity to stir the pot since all non Muslim Americans are disgusting to them.

I know I'm always up in arms about racism but here it is clear they are just doing whatever they can to incite anger and hatred.



Not only that but his dad is Muslim and he went to a Muslim school as a kid, they will see him as a convert from Islam to something else and that is to them enough to make him dead meat to them.



Is THIS a joke? (my sense of humor is suspect apparently) Or just you trolling again? Hasn't the "he went to a Muslim school" bit been refuted time and time again?



Maybe not, but see my reference.



Does any of the above information from the Chicago Tribune article refute my analysis, as MMfA contends? It raises questions about two details in the Los Angeles Times account (the accuracy of the Catholic school's registration form and the reliability of Zulfan Adi as a source on Obama). But on the larger issue of Obama's religious practices during his Jakarta years, it confirms the Times account. Note in particular three excerpts from Barker's article:

* "Interviews with dozens of former classmates, teachers, neighbors and friends show that Obama was not a regular practicing Muslim when he was in Indonesia" â€" implying he was an irregularly practicing Muslim.
* "Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers, a few neighbors said" â€" confirming that he did pray in the mosque.
* "Obama's 3rd-grade teacher at the Catholic school, who lived near the family [said that] ‘Rarely, Barry went to the mosque with Lolo'" â€" confirming that Obama attended mosque services.

All this matters, for if Obama once was a Muslim, he is now what Islamic law calls a murtadd (apostate), an ex-Muslim converted to another religion who must be executed. Were he elected president of the United States, this status, clearly, would have large potential implications for his relationship with the Muslim world.

In sum: Obama was an irregularly practicing Muslim who rarely or occasionally prayed with his step-father in a mosque. This precisely substantiates my statement that he "for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father."

Therefore, what MMfA calls the "Obama-Muslim falsehood" is in fact confirmed by both articles as truthful and accurate.

Calling this a falsehood is in itself a falsehood.



Anyway even if Obama never officially attended a a Muslim school, my main point was that many radical Muslims would hold that he was "what Islamic law calls a murtadd (apostate), an ex-Muslim converted to another religion who must be executed."

If I was misremembering that he had attended a Muslim religious school for a while as a child, I am sorry. But the point I was trying to get across stands, radical muslims will see him as being a "murtadd", and that will cause security problems, and will give (more) reason for muslim radicals to attack him than other US presidents.

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

NOV 20, 2008 07:43 PM

petepolly said:
If I was misremembering that he had attended a Muslim religious school for a while as a child, I am sorry. But the point I was trying to get across stands, radical muslims will see him as being a "murtadd", and that will cause security problems, and will give (more) reason for muslim radicals to attack him than other US presidents.



You are misremembering. By your own source, in 3rd grade he went to a Catholic School. And for those who start throwing the "madrasa" connection around, please remember (as has been said dozens upon dozens of times in the past months) madrasa translates directly to "school" with no connection to any sort of religion.

FreakPirate

FreakPirate

Canada
November 2002

NOV 20, 2008 07:57 PM

I got dragged to church once or twice as a child. This does not, in any way, make me an Anglican.

Otoki

Otoki

SUICIDEGIRL

Minnesota, USA

NOV 20, 2008 08:06 PM

dangerman said:
Racism in the US and other parts of the world is miles and miles apart, and not just literally. Granted, the atrocities of the frontier days, the brutal lynchings and overt physicality of segregation (separate water fountains, buses, etc.) was as visceral a part of our history as you can get, but by and large the racism we see today in our own communities pales in comparison to what goes on in other regions, where it is not widely reported.
Feel like you were discriminated against today?
Not long ago, in this wondrous part of the world, a little girl ( about 12 I think) strolled into a local police station one morning and walked up to the front desk. None of the officers paid her much mind, and failed to notice the vest of explosives she wore, custom fit to her small frame. The bomb didn't detonate as planned, and luckily a contingent of US soldiers was stopping in just after for a weekly chat with the local policemen. After a few hours, they were able to get the bomb off her safely, and even traced it back to the bomb maker, her father. He was only caught because he kept calling the phone attached to the bomb on his daughter to detonate it, and they traced it backed while he was on the line. He wanted these men, a different denomination of the same religion with slightly different ethnic backgrounds, dead so badly he was going to erase his daughter from the Earth without thinking twice.


Link please. I like details.

petepolly

petepolly

Antarctica
August 2008

NOV 20, 2008 08:12 PM

FreakPirate said:
I got dragged to church once or twice as a child. This does not, in any way, make me an Anglican.



While in our society that is true, Muslims do not see it that way about persons who were once seen as Muslim however.

Dave_H

Dave_H

Bermuda
January 2003

NOV 21, 2008 02:34 AM

petepolly said:

FreakPirate said:
I got dragged to church once or twice as a child. This does not, in any way, make me an Anglican.



While in our society that is true, Muslims do not see it that way about persons who were once seen as Muslim however.



Nonsense. What you're saying is that all Muslims are stupid. That is what you are saying. You are saying that they are too stupid and barbaric to understand Obama's unique situation. You are saying that all Muslims are so backwards and ignorant that they can only see the rest of the world through the lenses of the most fundamentalist interpretation of Islam. You are saying that all Muslims are incapable of being tolerant of someone who rejected Islam. You're saying that hundred's of millions of people are going to automatically want to kill one man because of some rule you heard on Rush Limbaugh or something.

Unbelievable.

motorfirebox

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA
March 2004

NOV 21, 2008 07:04 AM

Dave_H said:

petepolly said:

FreakPirate said:
I got dragged to church once or twice as a child. This does not, in any way, make me an Anglican.



While in our society that is true, Muslims do not see it that way about persons who were once seen as Muslim however.



Nonsense. What you're saying is that all Muslims are stupid. That is what you are saying. You are saying that they are too stupid and barbaric to understand Obama's unique situation. You are saying that all Muslims are so backwards and ignorant that they can only see the rest of the world through the lenses of the most fundamentalist interpretation of Islam. You are saying that all Muslims are incapable of being tolerant of someone who rejected Islam. You're saying that hundred's of millions of people are going to automatically want to kill one man because of some rule you heard on Rush Limbaugh or something.

Unbelievable.



he's actually not saying that. it appears he's saying that, if you only look at that one statement, but he's made it fairly clear in previous post that he's talking specifically about violently radical muslims, not muslims in general.

motorfirebox

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA
March 2004

NOV 21, 2008 07:24 AM

here is an article that, in a roundabout way, illustrates my opinion on the logic behind the 'house negro' comment, and the direction i think that comment indicates. basically, we're being attacked on fronts that we don't even think of as fronts. the racism that exists in our society certainly has potential to be one of those fronts, and when the dust settles, there's every chance that we won't even recognize that we've been attacked.

Toku666

Toku666

Columbus, OH
May 2004

NOV 21, 2008 09:08 AM

motorfirebox said:
here is an article that, in a roundabout way, illustrates my opinion on the logic behind the 'house negro' comment, and the direction i think that comment indicates. basically, we're being attacked on fronts that we don't even think of as fronts. the racism that exists in our society certainly has potential to be one of those fronts, and when the dust settles, there's every chance that we won't even recognize that we've been attacked.



I think we all understand this, but it's good to ask "how?"

How exactly is this "attack" going to manifest? It reminds me of the propaganda that was distributed during the Vietnam war about how the US military was "using" the black soldiers.

motorfirebox

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA
March 2004

NOV 21, 2008 09:16 AM

i suppose the simplest method would be to fund and supply existing racist groups, such as the various KKKs running around the country. give angry racists enough meth and guns, and something bad will happen. they'd have to disguise the funding, of course--send in a melanin-appropriate front man who 'has connections' or somesuch. basically, do stuff and then make it look like racist group X did it (or, better, get racist group X to claim credit). voila, racial tension flares.

as to whether or not such tactics would work, i couldn't say--i don't really know how good our intelligence community has become at sniffing out such infiltrations and snuffing them out or exposing them before they can do anything subversive. i suspect that the answer is "pretty good".

to be honest, though, Al Qaeda might not be set up for such subtleties. that comment was pretty crude, in terms of effectiveness.

Hussein

Hussein

I'm lost
March 2004

NOV 21, 2008 09:27 AM

silversoul7 said:
Apparently they agree with Ralph Nader.



It pains me to say it, but I don't think that comparison is hyperbole. Nader was making a different point of course--he was claiming that Obama will cozy up to the "corporatists," while Al Qaeda says he'll cozy up to "the Jews"--but he made his point in precisely the same way, didn't he? puke

Dave_H

Dave_H

Bermuda
January 2003

NOV 21, 2008 09:39 AM

motorfirebox said:

Dave_H said:

petepolly said:

FreakPirate said:
I got dragged to church once or twice as a child. This does not, in any way, make me an Anglican.



While in our society that is true, Muslims do not see it that way about persons who were once seen as Muslim however.



Nonsense. What you're saying is that all Muslims are stupid. That is what you are saying. You are saying that they are too stupid and barbaric to understand Obama's unique situation. You are saying that all Muslims are so backwards and ignorant that they can only see the rest of the world through the lenses of the most fundamentalist interpretation of Islam. You are saying that all Muslims are incapable of being tolerant of someone who rejected Islam. You're saying that hundred's of millions of people are going to automatically want to kill one man because of some rule you heard on Rush Limbaugh or something.

Unbelievable.



he's actually not saying that. it appears he's saying that, if you only look at that one statement, but he's made it fairly clear in previous post that he's talking specifically about violently radical muslims, not muslims in general.



I'm sorry I was mean to petepolly.

motorfirebox

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA
March 2004

NOV 21, 2008 09:48 AM

you can be mean to whoever you like, i'll probably cheer. i just don't want to see the thread derail over a misinterpreted post.

Wendy

Wendy

SUICIDEGIRL

Israel

NOV 21, 2008 02:36 PM

Otoki said:

dangerman said:
Racism in the US and other parts of the world is miles and miles apart, and not just literally. Granted, the atrocities of the frontier days, the brutal lynchings and overt physicality of segregation (separate water fountains, buses, etc.) was as visceral a part of our history as you can get, but by and large the racism we see today in our own communities pales in comparison to what goes on in other regions, where it is not widely reported.
Feel like you were discriminated against today?
Not long ago, in this wondrous part of the world, a little girl ( about 12 I think) strolled into a local police station one morning and walked up to the front desk. None of the officers paid her much mind, and failed to notice the vest of explosives she wore, custom fit to her small frame. The bomb didn't detonate as planned, and luckily a contingent of US soldiers was stopping in just after for a weekly chat with the local policemen. After a few hours, they were able to get the bomb off her safely, and even traced it back to the bomb maker, her father. He was only caught because he kept calling the phone attached to the bomb on his daughter to detonate it, and they traced it backed while he was on the line. He wanted these men, a different denomination of the same religion with slightly different ethnic backgrounds, dead so badly he was going to erase his daughter from the Earth without thinking twice.


Link please. I like details.



I doubt I'd be able to find the exact news article on this situation, but this kind of thing is pretty common and happens in Iraq all the time. Just do a google search of "child suicide bomber in Iraq" or something along those lines. Terrorists love to recruit women and children to do their dirty work.

ASSH0LE

ASSH0LE

Las Vegas, NV
June 2003

NOV 21, 2008 02:57 PM

unfiltrator said:
Umm.. The President elect of the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the world (by GDP - unless you call the EU a country) and Commander in Chief of the world's most powerful military on the entire planet is a house negro?

WTF?



Come January, he'll be a "White House negro."

dangerman

dangerman

I'm lost
December 2005

NOV 22, 2008 03:02 PM

Otoki said:

dangerman said:
Racism in the US and other parts of the world is miles and miles apart, and not just literally. Granted, the atrocities of the frontier days, the brutal lynchings and overt physicality of segregation (separate water fountains, buses, etc.) was as visceral a part of our history as you can get, but by and large the racism we see today in our own communities pales in comparison to what goes on in other regions, where it is not widely reported.
Feel like you were discriminated against today?
Not long ago, in this wondrous part of the world, a little girl ( about 12 I think) strolled into a local police station one morning and walked up to the front desk. None of the officers paid her much mind, and failed to notice the vest of explosives she wore, custom fit to her small frame. The bomb didn't detonate as planned, and luckily a contingent of US soldiers was stopping in just after for a weekly chat with the local policemen. After a few hours, they were able to get the bomb off her safely, and even traced it back to the bomb maker, her father. He was only caught because he kept calling the phone attached to the bomb on his daughter to detonate it, and they traced it backed while he was on the line. He wanted these men, a different denomination of the same religion with slightly different ethnic backgrounds, dead so badly he was going to erase his daughter from the Earth without thinking twice.


Link please. I like details.



Umm, I didn't get this from a news story. Sorry. whatever

Dave_H

Dave_H

Bermuda
January 2003

NOV 22, 2008 03:39 PM

dangerman said:

Otoki said:

dangerman said:
Racism in the US and other parts of the world is miles and miles apart, and not just literally. Granted, the atrocities of the frontier days, the brutal lynchings and overt physicality of segregation (separate water fountains, buses, etc.) was as visceral a part of our history as you can get, but by and large the racism we see today in our own communities pales in comparison to what goes on in other regions, where it is not widely reported.
Feel like you were discriminated against today?
Not long ago, in this wondrous part of the world, a little girl ( about 12 I think) strolled into a local police station one morning and walked up to the front desk. None of the officers paid her much mind, and failed to notice the vest of explosives she wore, custom fit to her small frame. The bomb didn't detonate as planned, and luckily a contingent of US soldiers was stopping in just after for a weekly chat with the local policemen. After a few hours, they were able to get the bomb off her safely, and even traced it back to the bomb maker, her father. He was only caught because he kept calling the phone attached to the bomb on his daughter to detonate it, and they traced it backed while he was on the line. He wanted these men, a different denomination of the same religion with slightly different ethnic backgrounds, dead so badly he was going to erase his daughter from the Earth without thinking twice.


Link please. I like details.



Umm, I didn't get this from a news story. Sorry. whatever



If it's the story I'm thinking of, it did in fact make the news. There were some pretty disturbing pictures of the girl handcuffed to building while they figured out what to do with her.

Or maybe it was just some other teenage girl being manipulated into killing innocent people.

EDIT: Here is the link to the one I was thinking of. Don't know if it's the same one. There are plenty of these stories out there.

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