Shoot 'Em if You Got 'Em!

So then why even bother with police and fire and medicine then?

I didn't ask if it was your job. I asked "why" and "what" and "how," because I honestly don't know why you care, and I don't understand your endless optimism.

An answer might be as simple as, "Because I'm a good person who believes in the value of human life."

Of course, I'd also ask "why" to that, but I'm sure you have reasons.

And so my philosophy offends you. It happens. No need to get snarky and roll your eyes about it.

fair enough.

correlation does not equal causation. is having a gun in the home the cause of suicide? no! it's mental illness, depression, poor family and social situations that cause suicide, a gun is simply the means.

wait, let me rephrase that. an incorrectly stored gun is the means. if i ever have kids, i can guarantee you one thing for sure. there will not be a loaded or unlocked firearm in my home. period. people who leave firearms and ammunition easily accessible to people who don't have the training and/or maturity (read: children and teens) to handle them properly are simply stupid. just dumb, fucking stupid. it's that kind of behavior that puts everyone at risk.

like i said, i have no problem with the government regulating and restricting gun ownership, within reason. i have a problem with fucking morons who leave their weapons out and accessible to anyone in the home.

Can anyone get behind the idea that it'd be better not to own a gun if it puts you at risk of dying?



EVERYONE has blue moments and a gun makes death a permanent solution to a temporary problem for some who would've just sat in misery for a bit then moved on.


Your correlation argument is moot when the person is dead, IMAO. THAT is causation.

Dead from a gun is dead from a gun.

I've worked in too many hospitals and have seen gun trauma personally and professionally.

I did try to say tons more but the edit was eaten.

optimism my ass.

I'm sorry, but suicide is a hell of a lot different than homocide, and your scenario above is making assumptions about me that simply aren't true. I've had some fucking horrible times in my life, but I'm not going to resort to suicide. Having a gun isn't going to change that. What you're pleading for here is a legal response to a personal psychiatric problem, and I disapprove of that sort of solution, just as I do to similar responses to drugs.

not really, because there are worse risks that, in my opinion, owning a gun you've trained with and are prepared to use can help mitigate.

I'll be honest. I own firearms. However, I will not be using them to off myself.

When my time comes, I plan to behead myself.

I accept the idea that that it'd be better not to own a gun if it puts you at risk of dying. I just don't necessarily believe that if guns didn't exist, something else wouldn't take their place, and that the overall risk of dying would decrease significantly.

I quoted some data from the UK a few pages back. As firearms are difficult to obtain in the UK, people have switched to rope to kill themselves. Nearly the same percentage of people hang themselves there as use firearms in the US. People didn't stop killing themselves; they just switched to the next most effective method.

Reasons I love Senator Obama: "Save the Children" applied to guns, rather than pornography.

You took the words right out of my mouth. It is ridiculous to not at the VERY least, put trigger locks on your gun if you know that someone else in your household may have access to them that doesn't need access. Especially when I know that every gun I have bought in the past few years COMES with a fuggin triggerlock.

My son can't even stand up on his own right now, and I've already made precautions so that he can't get to them.

It all comes down to responsible ownership. My dad's a fully legal and licensed gun owner and a hunter. He locks all his guns up, and taught me safety and how to shoot a few different types of guns.

-TM

I'm done here. If you gun enthusiasts are into your toys, just consider the risks you place yourselves and others in, and please do take every precaution.

I trust conscientious people who post all day long on the CE would also have the OCD to take precautions, but

And again, this is not theoretical conjecture, this is from the Center sfor Disease control, ok?

And the ratio of gun owners:death by said gun is higher than car owners/death by said car.


the gun risks thing again

Found it. Gun Ownership as a Risk Factor for Homicide in the Home (Kellerman, 1993).

Really? All this is over 15-year-old study?

I know that no one is likely to read the entire thing except me, but I'll pick some pieces out that say what I want them to or are otherwise interesting. Then again, I don't actually think anyone is likely to read my entire post, either. No one ever does. At least not without first deciding they already know what I wrote, and skimming over anything that doesn't conform to their preconceptions.

I knew I remembered this study, and that aspect of the methodology.

I always suspected that love might be hazardous to one's health.

More likely to contain a gun that was kept loaded or unlocked. So we're not talking about overly cautious and responsible gun owners, apparently.

What have I been saying about the difficulty of causality and possible third factors?

Well, so there it is, anyway. The actual study, rather than a summary and quick flash of statistics filtered through the hands of who knows how many journalists, commentators, and laypersons. I hope it helps.

So - don't own a gun if you have a history of drunken screaming fights with other people in the house.

i know i told you i was done with this thread, but i can't be.

here's the problem. i'm going to assume (a dubious proposition, at best) that you assume (we're talking even more dubious, like the fact the OJ was innocent) that all gun owners keep their guns loaded and easily available.

i have an inkling, that if you took the data, and analyzed it as it pertains to people who keep their guns safe and secure (granted, this is probably a woefully small section of the people who own guns) vs. those who don't, you might be able to come up with some very interesting conclusions.

what you are against is irresponsible gun ownership/storage. so am i. you can't, in all honesty, tell me that me owning guns that are stored in a safe that only one person knows the combination to (i'm serious, aside from the manufacturing company, it's just me) makes my house less safe.

you might say i could go ahead and kill myself, since i have guns. i'll just say this, if i was going to (oh, and don't think i haven't had those gut check moments when i thought i might), i would have never used a gun.

yes, they do. and guess what, if someone really wants to kill themselves? there are far easier ways to do it than procuring a gun.

no, it's not. again, correlation does not equal causation, and any study that does not take into account the responsible storage of firearms is flawed!

people/teenagers do not kill themselves because there are guns in their homes. they kill themselves because they are depressed/mentally ill in some form. having a gun that is easily available makes it easier. it's the same as if they had large amounts of prescription drugs.

you're right, dead from a gun is dead from a gun. dead from a car is dead from a car. dead from a pool is dead from a pool. dead from prescription meds is dead from prescription meds.

death is permanent. i don't disagree. but i'm going to go ahead and raise a point. we, as citizens of the united states of america, have a right to bear arms. it's the second fucking amendment. the first amendment is free speech. what happens when we modify the second amendment? huh? what's next? if the people of the united states want to alter the constitution by another amendment that changes the second, i've got no problem with that. other than that? it stands.

sorry.

I hate concealed carry, but I find it hard to give a crap about keeping handguns in the home.