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Nolan_Void

Nolan_Void

Salisbury, NC
July 2004

JUN 05, 2008 07:03 AM

gfvella said:


I'm still not sure why, even granted that you obviously disagree with me, why you feel the need to use a term like delusional. Hell, say I'm wrong or whatever, but why feel the need to question my mental stability? Sometime Obama supporters seem a tad touchy. Not everything is an attack.

Nolan_Void said:
These statements appear to fail in their reflection of reality as it is, but they are your opinion. Attack dog? Hardly. Scorn heaped on Hillary by her own party? Am I the only one who remembers back in 2007 when everyone just declared Hillary the winner before the race had really even started? All this talk about Hillary just "having it in the bag?" The scorn came after it became clear that it was mathematically impossible for her to win, yet she continued to drag things out.



I got to disagree with you here. The attack dog one i responded to elsewhere, but the left of the Democratic party have heaped on Hilliary from the very beginning of her independent political career. I don't understand the scorn nor the vitriol.



I just don't see it. I've followed this campaign from the beginning as much any other American, and arguably than most, and early in the campaign everyone just seemed ready to hand the victory to Hillary. Then she lost 11 straight caucuses to Obama and she started to get even more panicked and self-absorbed, and started saying things like "John McCain would make a better president" than Obama.

I watched her speeches. At first I was neutral, and I thought that it was great to have so many good choices for candidates. Then she gradually began to reveal herself to be focused on herself, and not on the issues or the country. Granted this may be due to the fact that people pointed out immense contradictions in what she was saying, and how her voting record conflicted with her claims in the present, and how videos revealed her landing peacefully in Bosnia and receiving flowers from a little girl instead of "under sniper fire" like she claimed. But these are not attacks particular to her.

When people are running for president, they are carefully scrutinized regarding the differences between what they said and what they've done. It is unnecessary to probably even mention all the bullshit said about Obama at this point. Is he a secret Muslim? But his middle name is Hussein! And what about the silly 3 A.M. phone call ad? I don't recall Obama running that kind of campaign. Perhaps there are others in the left that you'd like to show us to confirm your claim that they heaped scorn on her from the very beginning. Take a moment to watch this little clip.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=171106&title=headlines-obama-makes-history

Those clips of pundits giving Hillary the victory in 2006 and 2007? That was scorn?

Furthermore, I apologize for calling you delusional. It's easy to say shit like that when you get caught up in matters that have grown to feel personal to you. These claims that she's been attacked from the beginning were largely what I was referencing in that regard, and early on she wasn't scorned any more than the rest of the candidates (as they all receive heat to a large degree, that being the nature of the beast). Later on in the race, because she revealed herself to be a weaker candidate in both words and actions, past policies, and current policies (see "gas tax holiday") she was "scorned" I suppose by people who were experts on why what she was proposing wouldn't work. Then after she made assassination comments and displayed cyclopean amounts of narcissism (ironic after her claims that Obama was an arrogant elitist) more scorn was heaped on as she continued her race at the detriment of her party. I think by that point it was warranted.

SocietysPliers

SocietysPliers

Ocala, FL
October 2004

JUN 05, 2008 07:04 AM

LostLucy said:
I keep wanting to see Stephen Colbert's 6/3 show on youtube.com. because when HRC said she would make no decisions tonight and that her supporters should go to her website to express what they think she should do, he wrote her this webletter on the air:

Please continue until all is blood and ash,
you can be the dark destroyer of the world... stay strong!

shocked tongue

I love Colbert. One of my patients that I have every Monday, Wednesday & Friday watches him while he dialyzes, so as long as no bad things are happening with my other patients (or esewhere in the unit, for that matter), I get to watch it.smile

LostLucy

LostLucy

USA
December 2006

JUN 05, 2008 07:07 AM

Nolan_Void said:

gfvella said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)



I'm still not sure why, even granted that you obviously disagree with me, why you feel the need to use a term like delusional. Hell, say I'm wrong or whatever, but why feel the need to question my mental stability? Sometime Obama supporters seem a tad touchy. Not everything is an attack.

Nolan_Void said:
These statements appear to fail in their reflection of reality as it is, but they are your opinion. Attack dog? Hardly. Scorn heaped on Hillary by her own party? Am I the only one who remembers back in 2007 when everyone just declared Hillary the winner before the race had really even started? All this talk about Hillary just "having it in the bag?" The scorn came after it became clear that it was mathematically impossible for her to win, yet she continued to drag things out.



I got to disagree with you here. The attack dog one i responded to elsewhere, but the left of the Democratic party have heaped on Hilliary from the very beginning of her independent political career. I don't understand the scorn nor the vitriol.



I just don't see it. I've followed this campaign from the beginning as much any other American, and arguably than most, and early in the campaign everyone just seemed ready to hand the victory to Hillary. Then she lost 11 straight caucuses to Obama and she started to get even more panicked and self-absorbed, and started saying things like "John McCain would make a better president" than Obama.

I watched her speeches. At first I was neutral, and I thought that it was great to have so many good choices for candidates. Then she gradually began to reveal herself to be focused on herself, and not on the issues or the country. Granted this may be due to the fact that people pointed out immense contradictions in what she was saying, and how her voting record conflicted with her claims in the present, and how videos revealed her landing peacefully in Bosnia and receiving flowers from a little girl instead of "under sniper fire" like she claimed. But these are not attacks particular to her.

When people are running for president, they are carefully scrutinized regarding the differences between what they said and what they've done. It is unnecessary to probably even mention all the bullshit said about Obama at this point. Is he a secret Muslim? But his middle name is Hussein! And what about the silly 3 A.M. phone call ad? I don't recall Obama running that kind of campaign. Perhaps there are others in the left that you'd like to show us to confirm your claim that they heaped scorn on her from the very beginning. Take a moment to watch this little clip.

<embed FlashVars='videoId=171106' src='http://www.comedycentral.com/sitewide/video_player/view/default/swf.jhtml' quality='high' bgcolor='#cccccc' width='332' height='316' name='comedy_central_player' align='middle' allowScriptAccess='always' allownetworking='external' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' pluginspage='http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer'></embed>

Those clips of pundits giving Hillary the victory in 2006 and 2007? That was scorn?

Furthermore, I apologize for calling you delusional. It's easy to say shit like that when you get caught up in matters that have grown to feel personal to you. These claims that she's been attacked from the beginning were largely what I was referencing in that regard, and early on she was scorned any more than the rest of the candidates (as they all receive heat to a large degree, that being the nature of the beast). Later on in the race, because she revealed herself to be a weaker candidate in both words, actions, past policies, and current policies (see "gas tax holiday") she was "scorned" I suppose by people who were experts on why what she was proposing wouldn't work. Then after she made assassination comments and displayed cyclopean amounts of narcissism (ironic after her claims that Obama was an arrogant elitist) more scorn was heaped on as she continued her race at the detriment of her party.







I swear most of this misunderstanding is because one of you in Australia has not had the chance to observe in great detail, as we have, the scandalous personal attacks (How about those TV ads in Pennsylvania that said "Obama... Osama..." put out by the Clinton campaign.


I PLEA with you gfvella to comprehend that we've seen things you haven't. There is not a great left wing conspiracy against HRC.

p.s. we don't mean to be rude.

alaric

alaric

I'm lost
June 2005

JUN 05, 2008 08:31 AM

And so it begins.

The link below is about the alleged tape that has Michelle Obama saying "whitey." Remember, it need not be true, and probably is not true. Innuendo and a little mainstream media coverage are enough for it to hurt. And this is the tip of the iceberg. We're one day into Obama's nomination. Much worse is coming down the pipeline. I'm sure Larry Sinclair's bogus allegation of coke and gay sex with obama will also get mainstream coverage somehow.

The GOP MUST go PERSONAL because McCain is on the wrong side of most issues. This will be very ugly and its going to devastate support for obama amongst "independents" and republicans (who helped him quite a bit in the primaries) if it gets airtime and it will.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2075159/Michelle,-the-asset-to-Barack-Obama-that-may-become-a-liability.html

LostLucy

LostLucy

USA
December 2006

JUN 05, 2008 08:41 AM

Yes This rumor has a thread here already and has been and will be easily put to rest, as she is saying:

"Why'd he..." referring to Bush, not "whitey"

see?
Call out the linguists and speech therapists...

FearTheReaper

FearTheReaper

NEWSWIRE

I'm lost

JUN 05, 2008 08:46 AM

alaric said:
And so it begins.

The link below is about the alleged tape that has Michelle Obama saying "whitey." Remember, it need not be true, and probably is not true. Innuendo and a little mainstream media coverage are enough for it to hurt. And this is the tip of the iceberg. We're one day into Obama's nomination. Much worse is coming down the pipeline. I'm sure Larry Sinclair's bogus allegation of coke and gay sex with obama will also get mainstream coverage somehow.

The GOP MUST go PERSONAL because McCain is on the wrong side of most issues. This will be very ugly and its going to devastate support for obama amongst "independents" and republicans (who helped him quite a bit in the primaries) if it gets airtime and it will.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2075159/Michelle,-the-asset-to-Barack-Obama-that-may-become-a-liability.html



Yawn. Not real. This will only convince people who were already voting for McCain to hate her. Yawn bookend.

Nothing would be worse than the woman who defended a child rapist by attacking the child's mental stability. The Dems dodged a massive bullet by not nominating your hero.

cthulhu

cthulhu

Miami Beach, FL
April 2008

JUN 05, 2008 10:38 AM

If the american people choose to elect McCain over Obama, then they deserve what they get! Another 4 years of policies which mirror Bush policy will further weaken our country. Obama is the way to go. Pissed off femi-nazis can cry all they want about how their Fuhrer has been vanquished, but that devil bitch needs to come around and do what is best for the party and ultimately what is best for the country! She actually requested for Obama to offer her the VP spot in public so she can refuse it and also asked them to not offer it to another woman at all. How is that empowering to women? She's going for her own personal power hunger. She does not give a fuuuuuuck about women and their struggles in this chauvinist society. Don't believe the hype.

-Cthulhu

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

JUN 05, 2008 11:08 AM

cthulhu said:
Pissed off femi-nazis can cry all they want about how their Fuhrer has been vanquished, but that devil bitch needs to come around and do what is best for the party and ultimately what is best for the country!


No seriously. Not helpful at all. This sort of statement is only going to further alienate Clinton supporters, right when we're trying to convince them that their voice is an important part of Obama's campaign.

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

JUN 05, 2008 11:27 AM

cthulhu said:
If the american people choose to elect McCain over Obama, then they deserve what they get! Another 4 years of policies which mirror Bush policy will further weaken our country. Obama is the way to go. Pissed off femi-nazis can cry all they want about how their Fuhrer has been vanquished, but that devil bitch needs to come around and do what is best for the party and ultimately what is best for the country! She actually requested for Obama to offer her the VP spot in public so she can refuse it and also asked them to not offer it to another woman at all. How is that empowering to women? She's going for her own personal power hunger. She does not give a fuuuuuuck about women and their struggles in this chauvinist society. Don't believe the hype.

-Cthulhu



It's over. Time to lose the anger.

alaric

alaric

I'm lost
June 2005

JUN 05, 2008 11:40 AM

FearTheReaper said:

alaric said:
And so it begins.

The link below is about the alleged tape that has Michelle Obama saying "whitey." Remember, it need not be true, and probably is not true. Innuendo and a little mainstream media coverage are enough for it to hurt. And this is the tip of the iceberg. We're one day into Obama's nomination. Much worse is coming down the pipeline. I'm sure Larry Sinclair's bogus allegation of coke and gay sex with obama will also get mainstream coverage somehow.

The GOP MUST go PERSONAL because McCain is on the wrong side of most issues. This will be very ugly and its going to devastate support for obama amongst "independents" and republicans (who helped him quite a bit in the primaries) if it gets airtime and it will.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2075159/Michelle,-the-asset-to-Barack-Obama-that-may-become-a-liability.html



Yawn. Not real. This will only convince people who were already voting for McCain to hate her. Yawn bookend.

Nothing would be worse than the woman who defended a child rapist by attacking the child's mental stability. The Dems dodged a massive bullet by not nominating your hero.



Its not about real (swift boaters real?) its about what people believe and how many times they hear it and who says it. That is the sad truth so the important variable become who covers it, how much and in what way.

If its MSNBC, the wall st. journal (who already mentioned it), ABC, CNN then Obama is in trouble. Obama is in trouble. We are in trouble.

And it is important because non affiliated independents constitute a large voting block in most states. McCain has a very strong standing with this block already. Obama's position, in the polls i read, has been slipping. Moderate fiscal republicans are also an issue, they are up for grabs.

And then there is the issue of women, hillary voters, and hispanics. Barack supporters, especially the ones in the main stream media, have done a very good job of alienating these people.

Now take some perspective and ask youself this: would the GOP start with their heaviest guns on the very first day of obama's nomination? One generally saves these things until september or october. That this was leaked so early suggests the GOP has a lot of ammunition.

LostLucy

LostLucy

USA
December 2006

JUN 05, 2008 11:45 AM

^^RIght. There must be so much more gossip there that other campaigns so far decided not to use whatever

It's going to be a long battle, and what was your point?

LostLucy

LostLucy

USA
December 2006

JUN 05, 2008 12:06 PM

They were friends when Obama came to the Senate in 2004.

The divisiveness is primarily between supporters, not the candidates, and it will die down.

Look to see her lead the Senate and congress on health care reform. SHe can do more in the Senate than she can as VP.

cthulhu

cthulhu

Miami Beach, FL
April 2008

JUN 05, 2008 02:21 PM

coyotemike said:

cthulhu said:
If the american people choose to elect McCain over Obama, then they deserve what they get! Another 4 years of policies which mirror Bush policy will further weaken our country. Obama is the way to go. Pissed off femi-nazis can cry all they want about how their Fuhrer has been vanquished, but that devil bitch needs to come around and do what is best for the party and ultimately what is best for the country! She actually requested for Obama to offer her the VP spot in public so she can refuse it and also asked them to not offer it to another woman at all. How is that empowering to women? She's going for her own personal power hunger. She does not give a fuuuuuuck about women and their struggles in this chauvinist society. Don't believe the hype.

-Cthulhu



It's over. Time to lose the anger.



Surprisingly, there wasn't any anger in that statement. I guess it's all in how you read it. I feel great, marvelous even.

-Cthulhu

gfvella

gfvella

Australia
November 2004

JUN 05, 2008 07:54 PM

Nolan_Void said:
It's easy to say shit like that when you get caught up in matters that have grown to feel personal to you.



No worries mate, I'm not actually really fussed, but we so often see really interesting debates degenerate. I find the passions that people like yourself and LostLucy being to this debate interesting, which is why I was pushing the topic.

I suppose one reason for this is that Australians generally find the American Kennedy complex somewhat hard to believe. The old joke is what do you call an honest politician? One who hasn't been caught lying yet. We have the lowest view of our political leaders of any democratic nation so the sort of adulation and hope being placed on Obama is a bit weird. Alternately all the, admittedly true, things being said about Clinton draw a yawn and the response: well yes she is a nasty, lying and conniving bitch; but she's a politician mate, what do you expect? wink

gfvella

gfvella

Australia
November 2004

JUN 05, 2008 08:02 PM

LostLucy said:
I swear most of this misunderstanding is because one of you in Australia has not had the chance to observe in great detail, as we have, the scandalous personal attacks (How about those TV ads in Pennsylvania that said "Obama... Osama..." put out by the Clinton campaign.

I PLEA with you gfvella to comprehend that we've seen things you haven't. There is not a great left wing conspiracy against HRC.

p.s. we don't mean to be rude.



I'm really not that soft, really I'm not biggrin Thank you for the consideration however.

I suppose at the bottom of it I am concerned that the passions roused in the Obama-Clinton primary will be impossible to overcome. I realise the Clinton's ran a vitriolic campaign as the going got tough, but it is also true that a lot of Hilliary's supporters have real issues with Obama and they have to be taken seriously. Like this:


Pissed off femi-nazis can cry all they want about how their Fuhrer has been vanquished, but that devil bitch needs to come around and do what is best for the party and ultimately what is best for the country!



This is the way to loose the next election, so passions have to be cooled like bean says or McCain wins.

LostLucy

LostLucy

USA
December 2006

JUN 05, 2008 08:05 PM

When she drops out and endorses him, Obama supporters will also be generous and patient.

Some people may go for McCain for a number of reasons, but they just said on MSNBC that 63% of her voters will go for Obama already, and the rest are undecided or McCain.

It is June. There are 5 months to go until the General Election.

gfvella

gfvella

Australia
November 2004

JUN 05, 2008 08:06 PM

LostLucy said:
Look to see her lead the Senate and congress on health care reform. SHe can do more in the Senate than she can as VP.
]



Very much agree. They are professional politicians and know how the game is played. This is a good article on the VP selection issues and why Hilliary would be a bad choice:
Don't choose Clinton: Carter

LostLucy

LostLucy

USA
December 2006

JUN 05, 2008 08:17 PM

gfvella said:

LostLucy said:
Look to see her lead the Senate and congress on health care reform. SHe can do more in the Senate than she can as VP.
]



Very much agree. They are professional politicians and know how the game is played. This is a good article on the VP selection issues and why Hilliary would be a bad choice:
Don't choose Clinton: Carter



I love that Carter had the nerve to come out and say it.

FearTheReaper

FearTheReaper

NEWSWIRE

I'm lost

JUN 05, 2008 10:47 PM

alaric said:
Its not about real (swift boaters real?) its about what people believe and how many times they hear it and who says it. That is the sad truth so the important variable become who covers it, how much and in what way.

If its MSNBC, the wall st. journal (who already mentioned it), ABC, CNN then Obama is in trouble. Obama is in trouble. We are in trouble.

And it is important because non affiliated independents constitute a large voting block in most states. McCain has a very strong standing with this block already. Obama's position, in the polls i read, has been slipping. Moderate fiscal republicans are also an issue, they are up for grabs.

And then there is the issue of women, hillary voters, and hispanics. Barack supporters, especially the ones in the main stream media, have done a very good job of alienating these people.

Now take some perspective and ask youself this: would the GOP start with their heaviest guns on the very first day of obama's nomination? One generally saves these things until september or october. That this was leaked so early suggests the GOP has a lot of ammunition.



Good to see you Democrats are still running with the victim/fear torch.

FearTheReaper

FearTheReaper

NEWSWIRE

I'm lost

JUN 06, 2008 09:54 AM

Surprise.


Superdelegate says Clinton campaign used 'divisive tactics'

Rep. Rob Andrews, who supported Hillary Clinton throughout the primary season, disclosed he received a phone call shortly before the April 22 Pennsylvania primary from a top member of Clinton's organization and that the caller explicitly discussed a strategy of winning Jewish voters by exploiting tensions between Jews and African-Americans.

"There have been signals coming out of the Clinton campaign that have racial overtones that indeed disturb me," Andrews said at his campaign headquarters in Cherry Hill Tuesday night after he lost his bid for the U.S. Senate nomination. "Frankly, I had a private conversation with a high-ranking person in the campaign ... that used a racial line of argument that I found very disconcerting. It was extremely disconcerting given the rank of this person. It was very disturbing."



Link

Mr_Matt_

Mr_Matt_

Pompano Beach, FL
July 2005

JUN 06, 2008 10:53 AM

He should have written a book.

Nolan_Void

Nolan_Void

Salisbury, NC
July 2004

JUN 06, 2008 01:03 PM

Mr_Matt_ said:
He should have written a book.



Give it time.

Alfaduetto

Alfaduetto

Greeneville, TN
May 2004

JUN 07, 2008 01:00 PM

Folks she only suspended. That means that whatever demise Barrack meets before the convention, she only has to flip the switch. The timetable is more more aggressive than I ever suspected. Watcha back O, she's not supporting you at all, just buying time! puke

ckdexterhaven

ckdexterhaven

USA
December 2005

JUN 07, 2008 01:19 PM

Alfaduetto said:
Folks she only suspended. That means that whatever demise Barrack meets before the convention, she only has to flip the switch. The timetable is more more aggressive than I ever suspected. Watcha back O, she's not supporting you at all, just buying time! puke


Ugh. Give it a rest, please. Obama is going to be the nominee, he's going to be on the ballot in November, and he's probably going to be the next President. If you want to get technical about it, John Edwards never officially ended his campaign. He suspended his just like Hillary has suspended hers. Is he planning to take out Obama as well?

LostLucy

LostLucy

USA
December 2006

JUN 07, 2008 07:42 PM

^^^There are many people who say never count a Clinton out. I think she will play this wisely bc she wants to keep and enhance the power she does have, but I believe this is also a valid perspective that should be allowed, if said respectfully.

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