What does government do well?

My thoughts exactly.

Hopefully the government can do Vets right and pass the new GI Bill.

First of all, we are not just talking about America. You framed the discussion in regard to the entire world. While the US was founded on a belief in natural rights, many other nations were not. In many nations, people have rights because their society has collectively decided to protect freedoms of the population (which they do through the government). The Declaration of Independence does not somehow grant people in Burma or Cuba a right to free speech.

However, if we were to discuss America, I don't think the situation changes. Regardless of whether people in nature somehow have rights or not, we have our rights because they are enshrined in the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and upheld by the American government (including the Supreme Court). Philosophical arguments aside, without a government to protect rights, people don't have them. Countries without the rule of law or constitutional constraints do not have rights, even if we believe that they are entitled to them or endowed in them by a creator.

I don't disagree with this statement, but I think it requires clarification. People have moral rights regardless of government. They only have legal rights with government.

Another way of phrasing this would be to say that people might deserve rights by nature but they cannot exercise them without societal protection (which comes in the form of government). Rights are social agreements to protect freedoms.

I really appreciate all the responses, especially the philosophical ones (notably the one above from RedBstrd and on the previous page from turin).

I think that discussion boards often self-regulate well for fairness, turin, and trust in that to resolve issues of specificity and generality.

RedBstrd, you clarify your statement well. Governments do tend to slowly infringe on some rights while expanding others. I guess that comes down to a matter of taste.

I'll concede that you've collectively named over 23 things, and achieved consensus. I'll remain skeptical of the effectiveness of government generally, but I will tone down my comments on the subject.

I just got home from a hellish prolonged conference at work, and leave tomorrow midday for Austin (to see the reunion of Return to Forever ), so forgive me if I don't respond to more comments or post my thoughts on the dualities inherent in private enterprise. If either discussion continues until Sunday night, I may get back to you with my ideas.

Thank you. I like the idea of natural rights and I agree that in a moral sense we deserve those freedoms and protections. I am just aware that without a government committed to acknowledging and protecting those rights, we are left with little more than goal of achieving those freedoms or a (valid) sense of entitlement to things we are denied.

I readily acknowledge that governments aren't the best defenders of rights (a mobilized, educated, and conscious populace is essential), but constitutions come from governments and we have to give government credit where it is due.

Austin is awesome so I hope you enjoy yourself.

1. Secure order and justice. I'd say the government does this in a more positive way than, say, the mafia.

2. Provide public goods: education, health care(if only...), national defense

3. Handle natural monopolies: railway, energy, public utilities

4. Ensure safety standards for workers and consumers

5. Provide a social safety net

6. Provide recourse for those whose rights have been violated(the legal system)

7. Subsidize important innovations

8. Centralized banking. A lot of libertards would like to go back to the gold standard when we had a depression every 12 years or so, but the federal reserve actually does a much better service to our economy than it gets credit for.

9. Enforce environmental standards to prevent the country from becoming a toxic waste dump

10. Prevent market failures

Well, I think you just ensured that this thread will live until at least Sunday night.

I'll tell you... I'm sure as hell hoping so.. I mean come on... we're just throwing ourselves into harm's way, signing up for the military during time of war... and hoping to come home to something more than a wife that left you with thousands of dollars worth of child support...

I see that the Iraqi government is making progress, slowly ... but surely, they'll make it sooner or later. It's amazing, to see how much it's changed over here since the war started... but you have very powerful people in charge over here, and it's quite amazing to see some serious actions being taken against the terrorist groups and housings all around Baghdad, and I'm sure other areas of Iraq.

Without government, we wouldn't have order... now, it's not very good order sometimes, and not all countries run the same set of rules and laws, BUT it does provide a sense of balance... which makes the people continue the every day business which needs to be done in order for life to go on.

That's my story...

Thread Jump: what does the IRAQI government do well?

Agreed!

+1 our vets have earned and it would be good for the economy.