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DevilsReject

DevilsReject

Cleveland, OH
February 2007

MAY 16, 2008 03:02 PM

Mr_Matt_ said:

DevilsReject said:

Mr_Matt_ said:
Hopefully, the younger generation, with it's (improved) access to the information age, will be able to break out of this rut.



I really don't want to stereotype the state, so i am speaking from personal experience.



Oh, I understand. I too have found myself in similar situations, where for the life of me I couldn't understand what they were even saying.

I guess that's why I used "Hopefully".

Hopefully, whatever shitty school the government forces them to go to has some internet connection. Anything that can expose them to the outside world.



Unfortunately you get into the small southern cities of Ohio and it's the same way. There are also cities like that in Kentucky, PA and Indiana that i have personally been to.

Life outside their beliefs and the edge of their town just doesn't exist. It's quite frightening actually. You try to enlighten them and they just see you as an outsider with a marred opinion on how life should work.

I think there are parts of every state like this, just not to the degree there are in West Virginia. I've been to some scary backwards parts of Florida too, as i am sure you have.


SPOILERS! (Click to view)
[off topic]
I think the all time best thing i remember from when i used to travel for work when i was in Louisiana, just outside of New Orleans, horribly lost. I stopped at a gas station and asked, what i would later find out was a person considered a "Cajun" for directions. I had no clue what he said to me, but he definitely had a deep down belly laugh, he pointed a lot and nodded with a big smile on his face. He was nice enough, i just had no clue what he was saying to me. I drove out of the gas station to the gas station across the street and found someone i could understand. They described to me what "Cajun English" was, and that is what was being spoken to me at the gas station across the street.

Gillionaire

Gillionaire

Manchester, NH
February 2007

MAY 16, 2008 03:18 PM

Mr_Matt_ said:

Old_Fritz said:

Mr_Matt_ said:
If those people in WV I saw on the videos are representative of the ignorance...

Which videos?



There's this one from the other thread.





And others which are floating around, but you get the idea.



This video saddens me. Especially the "The USA should be run by someone FROM the USA" lady. Face palm city.

SockPuppet

SockPuppet

I'm lost
July 2006

MAY 16, 2008 05:01 PM

Stiles said:
^^^ Absolutely.

Let me add that it's easy to forget that operating a computer can be a mystery to those who didn't grow up with the technology. Once you're over the hurdle of getting a computer and getting online, then you need to figure out how to frame a proper Google search, and then develop the skill to tell bullshit websites from legitimate ones.

This can be harder than it sounds, since uneducated and/or inexperienced people tend to believe everything they read, especially if it comes from what seems to be a reliable source. There are lots of people who wouldn't know the difference between the Washington Times and the Washington Post, for instance.



That would include lots of non-American people.

seme

seme

Czech Republic
July 2005

MAY 16, 2008 07:31 PM

Nice to see the ridiculous rhetoric is still a viable substitution for actual intelligent discourse when it comes to politics.

Before you cream yourself in glee you might actually want to spend a minute actually reading Don Cazayoux's political platform. He's FAR from a candidate lefties should be patting themselves on the back as a great upset. He's pro-life, against gun control, pro-war on terror (and from the phrase 'bring our troops home with honor' I suspect pro-Iraq), seemingly pro-Patriot Act and against amnesty for illegal immigrants. All of this would have taken you three minutes to find out ... but no it's way easier just to read "Democrat" and assume this is a massive victory.

What's most distressing is how many Democrats have their heads up their asses. You can't assume that negative views on Iraq will equal a win, if that were true Kerry would have taken the Presidency four years ago when the war was at its most violent and most unpopular. But he didn't, probably for the same reason the Democrats are likely to lose this time too: he assumed he had it locked up and forgot to actually run for President. Not only are the Democrats NOT reaching out to independents and moderate Republicans, they're making such a show about tearing each other apart they're risking losing a chunk of their own party's vote. The dirtiness between Obama and Clinton is making the Dems look ridiculous and turning swing voters off while McCain is smelling like a rose.

_kungfoo_

_kungfoo_

Los Angeles, CA
April 2005

MAY 16, 2008 08:06 PM



Can somebody take Mike Huckabee's fucking gun away from him because apparently he doesn't know how to handle one. You never point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot.

This is the primary rule of gun safety. A safe direction means that the gun is pointed so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury or damage. The key to this rule is to control where the muzzle or front end of the barrel is pointed at all times.

_kungfoo_

_kungfoo_

Los Angeles, CA
April 2005

MAY 16, 2008 08:08 PM

The GOP just can't keep that bigotry in check. It's leaking through like cracks in a dam.

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

MAY 16, 2008 08:12 PM

Schteeve said:


Can somebody take Mike Huckabee's fucking gun away from him because apparently he doesn't know how to handle one. You never point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot.

This is the primary rule of gun safety. A safe direction means that the gun is pointed so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury or damage. The key to this rule is to control where the muzzle or front end of the barrel is pointed at all times.



The joke is bad enough, but something else he said made me think. All these people calling for less government regulation and oversight . . . . it's starting to make me wonder what they are wanting to get up to that is illegal under federal regulations

gdarklighter

gdarklighter

San Diego, CA
August 2005

MAY 16, 2008 08:16 PM

seme said:
Not only are the Democrats NOT reaching out to independents and moderate Republicans, they're making such a show about tearing each other apart they're risking losing a chunk of their own party's vote.


Are you always this wrong? Obama's been grabbing independent votes like crazy and he's running an honest-to-god 50 states strategy, and it's one that the DCCC has been emulating.

Also, only trolls use the (exceptionally loaded) phrase "pro-war on terror". Democrats aren't against the war on terror. They're against a war on terror headed by an incompetent administration.

_kungfoo_

_kungfoo_

Los Angeles, CA
April 2005

MAY 16, 2008 08:23 PM

coyotemike said:
The joke is bad enough, but something else he said made me think. All these people calling for less government regulation and oversight . . . . it's starting to make me wonder what they are wanting to get up to that is illegal under federal regulations



I don't know. In case of Mike Huckabee, it just seems to be a weird allegiance to his anti-government ideology. Much like the Paultards, they seem to grab hold of specific examples of government waste and inefficiency and spread it over any and every argument of more vs. less government like better.

Mike Huckabee isn't that deep. Government bad. Jesus good.

malkav11

malkav11

Saint Paul, MN
July 2003

MAY 16, 2008 11:29 PM

gdarklighter said:

seme said:
Not only are the Democrats NOT reaching out to independents and moderate Republicans, they're making such a show about tearing each other apart they're risking losing a chunk of their own party's vote.


Are you always this wrong? Obama's been grabbing independent votes like crazy and he's running an honest-to-god 50 states strategy, and it's one that the DCCC has been emulating.

Also, only trolls use the (exceptionally loaded) phrase "pro-war on terror". Democrats aren't against the war on terror. They're against a war on terror headed by an incompetent administration.



I am against the "war on terror". It's a ridiculous notion, pandering to people scared of their own shadows and being used to curtail rights and freedoms. Little to none of which is making us any safer.

Of course, I'm not a Democrat.

(And I am specifically against the ludicrous concept of the war on terror. Such minimal additional precautions as are appropriate for maximal +safety/minimal -convenience are of course more than welcome.)

RudieCantFail

RudieCantFail

Baton Rouge, LA
January 2006

MAY 17, 2008 12:15 AM

seme said:
Before you cream yourself in glee you might actually want to spend a minute actually reading Don Cazayoux's political platform. He's FAR from a candidate lefties should be patting themselves on the back as a great upset. He's pro-life, against gun control, pro-war on terror (and from the phrase 'bring our troops home with honor' I suspect pro-Iraq), seemingly pro-Patriot Act and against amnesty for illegal immigrants. All of this would have taken you three minutes to find out ... but no it's way easier just to read "Democrat" and assume this is a massive victory.



As a Louisiana voter that identifies himself proudly as liberal, I can tell you that while Don Cazayoux may not be my ideal representative, he's as good as I can realistically hope for. It will take 100 years before the kind of candidate I consider to be ideal will ever have a shot in Louisiana. The fact that Don Cazayoux won as a Democrat down here is stupendous in and of itself. At the very least, a representative who is registered with the Democractic party, will be far more likely to represent my views than any of his Republican counterparts.


What's most distressing is how many Democrats have their heads up their asses. You can't assume that negative views on Iraq will equal a win, if that were true Kerry would have taken the Presidency four years ago when the war was at its most violent and most unpopular.



Citation needed. In 2004, the war was only a year old, and though Bush's support was waning, it was no where near the abysmal levels it is at now.


But he didn't, probably for the same reason the Democrats are likely to lose this time too: he assumed he had it locked up and forgot to actually run for President.



False. Kerry was a wooden and unpersonable candidate, just like Gore. Kerry and Gore also fell into the trap of fighting the non-issue battles that the Republicans choose. Obama has shown every indication so far, in his campaign against Hillary of not stooping to her ridiculous shots unless absolutely necessary. He doesn't allow his opponents to choose the battles.


gdarklighter

gdarklighter

San Diego, CA
August 2005

MAY 17, 2008 12:52 AM

malkav11 said:

gdarklighter said:

seme said:
Not only are the Democrats NOT reaching out to independents and moderate Republicans, they're making such a show about tearing each other apart they're risking losing a chunk of their own party's vote.


Are you always this wrong? Obama's been grabbing independent votes like crazy and he's running an honest-to-god 50 states strategy, and it's one that the DCCC has been emulating.

Also, only trolls use the (exceptionally loaded) phrase "pro-war on terror". Democrats aren't against the war on terror. They're against a war on terror headed by an incompetent administration.



I am against the "war on terror". It's a ridiculous notion, pandering to people scared of their own shadows and being used to curtail rights and freedoms. Little to none of which is making us any safer.


See above, re: incompetent administration. The terminology is certainly ridiculous, and the implementation has been inept, but I refuse to believe that we can't take steps to mitigate terrorism without sacrificing our civil liberties. It's a false dichotomy perpetrated by an administration that has never really been concerned about serving the people.

FearTheReaper

FearTheReaper

NEWSWIRE

I'm lost

MAY 17, 2008 02:18 AM

seme said:
Nice to see the ridiculous rhetoric is still a viable substitution for actual intelligent discourse when it comes to politics.

Before you cream yourself in glee you might actually want to spend a minute actually reading Don Cazayoux's political platform. He's FAR from a candidate lefties should be patting themselves on the back as a great upset. He's pro-life, against gun control, pro-war on terror (and from the phrase 'bring our troops home with honor' I suspect pro-Iraq), seemingly pro-Patriot Act and against amnesty for illegal immigrants. All of this would have taken you three minutes to find out ... but no it's way easier just to read "Democrat" and assume this is a massive victory.

What's most distressing is how many Democrats have their heads up their asses. You can't assume that negative views on Iraq will equal a win, if that were true Kerry would have taken the Presidency four years ago when the war was at its most violent and most unpopular. But he didn't, probably for the same reason the Democrats are likely to lose this time too: he assumed he had it locked up and forgot to actually run for President. Not only are the Democrats NOT reaching out to independents and moderate Republicans, they're making such a show about tearing each other apart they're risking losing a chunk of their own party's vote. The dirtiness between Obama and Clinton is making the Dems look ridiculous and turning swing voters off while McCain is smelling like a rose.



Anyway, dipshit, I'm not a Democrat. I'm an independent who is able to have the simple understanding that Democrats with a veto less majority is a good thing. I think if your head wasn't crammed up your ass, you'd realize Cazayoux's win was symbolic of something else.

Syntropia

Syntropia

Oakland, CA
February 2004

MAY 17, 2008 03:41 AM

bean said:

Narghile said:

Stiles said:
One other thing, to everyone who is looking down their nose at West Virginians:

Most of these people have been in grinding poverty for a long time, and are fearful of change because change has not brought them much good so far. A lot of them have worked very hard at pretty brutal jobs (like coal mining) to get what little they may have.

Derision and stereotypes aren't going to help them, but better education and jobs will. Let's try not to reinforce their stereotypes of us, please.



But does that really excuse them from educating themselves at a local library or making a simple Google search to discover the difference between Saddam Hussein and Barack Hussein Obama?


If you don't have any access to the internet, or you're reading at a 5th grade level when you graduate from high school (and that's the average, not the bottom of the class, nevermind the ones who dropped out), there's not a very good chance you're going to be able to do either of those things for yourself.

So, yeah, it does.

It should be noted that West Virginia isn't the lowest performing state on most education measures, and that the above examples don't represent the statewide averages, but rather the reality of life in the areas where the type of ignorance we're talking about is prevalent.



Just because ignorance is prevalent, doesn't mean that the proletariat is stupid... just sayin!
wink

Syntropia

Syntropia

Oakland, CA
February 2004

MAY 17, 2008 03:43 AM

Benzino said:
The less Republicans in office. the better.



Nevahh...

Syntropia

Syntropia

Oakland, CA
February 2004

MAY 17, 2008 03:50 AM

DevilsReject said:

Mr_Matt_ said:
Hopefully, the younger generation, with it's (improved) access to the information age, will be able to break out of this rut.



I really don't want to stereotype the state, so i am speaking from personal experience.

I spent some time there with a girlfriend that had family down there, we went to a Family Reunion right around the summer of 2003. We drove into a town that was basically carved into the side of a mountain.

I felt stupid because when i got there, her family still used an outhouse and the water running into the house was from a well. It reeked of sulfur and wasn't always clear. They had one phone between the three houses that were within a mile of one another and one television from about 1974, that got about 4 channels, not clear either. I was naive enough to believe that in the 2000's that this didn't exist anymore.

The whole time i was down there i was kind of in culture shock. I have four desktop computers and a laptop, cable connections, air cards, cell phones and PDA's are a part of my everyday life, i am a tech geek. I was frowned upon because of my tattoos, asked if i was gay several times and it was just assumed that i worshiped Satan. I mentioned "Bluetooth" and was looked at like i was insane.

They don't worry about college in this little town. They don't worry about anymore education than the "damned Yankee government" requires. I can't tell you the number of times that her grandmother said "I only got a sixth grade education, and i am fine!".

I am pretty sure her grandfather hated me, not for anymore reason than i was from a "big city". The feeling was just about mutual because the word "nigger" poured from his lips ignorantly in just about every sentence he used. They don't do white collar work. They're basically blue collar to the bone and have no desire to change that.

While i am sure things in the bigger cities of West Virginia are different. There are plentiful amounts of people living in the hollers and the hills that are perfectly happy with how they are living life. They're basically cut-off from society and don't care and really have no desire to change. They're family roots run deep, and they stay very close together in their beliefs and keep the family extremely close.

About two weeks after we got back from the Family re-union the girl who grew up there and i was dating, broke up with me because "Her grandparents didn't like me", even though she lives roughly 6 hours away from them, she still held onto the fact that she needed to impress her family with who she was dating. So even though she didn't live there anymore, her ideals still centered around keeping the family happy.

It's a different world in some places, and i am sure that is true in more places than just West Virginia. Change comes very, very slow to places like that.





Just because ignorance is stupid? Or delusion is the apathy of involvemennt?

Syntropia

Syntropia

Oakland, CA
February 2004

MAY 17, 2008 04:01 AM

robot Yargit robot Yargit robot

Mr_Matt_

Mr_Matt_

Pompano Beach, FL
July 2005

MAY 17, 2008 07:24 AM

Syntropia said:
robot Yargit robot Yargit robot



Excellent. Thank you for your participation.

seme

seme

Czech Republic
July 2005

MAY 17, 2008 01:19 PM



Anyway, dipshit, I'm not a Democrat. I'm an independent who is able to have the simple understanding that Democrats with a veto less majority is a good thing. I think if your head wasn't crammed up your ass, you'd realize Cazayoux's win was symbolic of something else.

Symbolism? Give me a break. Symbolism is the argument that people use in these kinds of debates when what they want to believe isn't meeting reality.

Frankly, independent or not, I've read several of your political news items and you always seem much more interested in calling people shit heads than you are at saying anything remotely intelligent. Now, before you get ahead of yourself, I think objectivity is overrated people SHOULD express their opinions for what they are, and certainly many people here do enjoy and respond to what you have to say. But that being said, in the quest to get out of this lesser of two evils corrupt partisan system people like you are part of the problem.

You want to know why some people still support Bush after everything that's happened? It's because people don't like being called names and treated like crap. So people like you, rather than provoking thought and dialogue that might actually change some minds, just make everyone more fanatical and push this country further into a system where the moderate and independent voices are lost. YOUR ACTIONS speak louder than what's written on your voter registration card.

FearTheReaper

FearTheReaper

NEWSWIRE

I'm lost

MAY 17, 2008 01:37 PM

seme said:
[
You want to know why some people still support Bush after everything that's happened? It's because people don't like being called names and treated like crap. So people like you, rather than provoking thought and dialogue that might actually change some minds, just make everyone more fanatical and push this country further into a system where the moderate and independent voices are lost. YOUR ACTIONS speak louder than what's written on your voter registration card.



Oh. Your post was a total dialogue opener, for sure. It was very much a "hello, let's talk about some stuff."

Reasonable discourse:

seme said:
Before you cream yourself in glee



Opening wonderful dialogue:

seme said:
Nice to see the ridiculous rhetoric



Gentlemanly discussions:

seme said:
...how many Democrats have their heads up their asses..



See, I attack people when they act like cunts. You asked for an attack and you got one. You're opening post was troll like and I was tired and responded in kind.

But, by all means, consider yourself Gandhi.
.

Bill_the_Cat

Bill_the_Cat

Vanier, ON
May 2005

MAY 17, 2008 02:04 PM

FearTheReaper said:

seme said:
[
You want to know why some people still support Bush after everything that's happened? It's because people don't like being called names and treated like crap. So people like you, rather than provoking thought and dialogue that might actually change some minds, just make everyone more fanatical and push this country further into a system where the moderate and independent voices are lost. YOUR ACTIONS speak louder than what's written on your voter registration card.



Oh. Your post was a total dialogue opener, for sure. It was very much a "hello, let's talk about some stuff."

Reasonable discourse:

seme said:
Before you cream yourself in glee



Opening wonderful dialogue:

seme said:
Nice to see the ridiculous rhetoric



Gentlemanly discussions:

seme said:
...how many Democrats have their heads up their asses..



See, I attack people when they act like cunts. You asked for an attack and you got one. You're opening post was troll like and I was tired and responded in kind.

But, by all means, consider yourself Gandhi.
.





I'm Mohandas Ghandi, and I approve this message.

MisterSatan

MisterSatan

Portland, OR
August 2002

MAY 17, 2008 02:13 PM

The Republican Party is getting no more than exactly what they deserve.

Well, that's not entirely true, but I don't see anyone setting up nationwide "Hot Pokerings" for the GOP anytime soon. Still, this is encouraging news. Now let's just hope the Democrats can take the ball and run with it a little.

ckdexterhaven

ckdexterhaven

USA
December 2005

MAY 17, 2008 02:17 PM

FearTheReaper said:
See, I attack people when they act like cunts. You asked for an attack and you got one. You're opening post was troll like and I was tired and responded in kind.


Are we really at the point where if someone disagrees with the "popular" opinion on here, they're considered a troll? Her retort was no more troll-like than any of your articles. That must mean that... nah, couldn't be.

seme

seme

Czech Republic
July 2005

MAY 17, 2008 02:25 PM

RudieCantFail said:
As a Louisiana voter that identifies himself proudly as liberal, I can tell you that while Don Cazayoux may not be my ideal representative, he's as good as I can realistically hope for. It will take 100 years before the kind of candidate I consider to be ideal will ever have a shot in Louisiana. The fact that Don Cazayoux won as a Democrat down here is stupendous in and of itself. At the very least, a representative who is registered with the Democractic party, will be far more likely to represent my views than any of his Republican counterparts.



Well certainly it suggests that people are willing to look beyond the label under the candidate's name and make decisions based on policies they agree with and who might be better suited for the job. And that, I agree, can ONLY be seen as a good thing.


Citation needed. In 2004, the war was only a year old, and though Bush's support was waning, it was no where near the abysmal levels it is at now.



I lose points here I guess smile I looked but wasn't able to find numbers on this ... but I feel (and this is totally unscientific so take it as you will) that in 2004 the war in Iraq was surrounded by a lot of media coverage that would make negative feelings more politically potent. Things like Michael Moore's movie, Abu Ghraib, and what seemed like horrific acts of violence committed everyday against the Iraqi people and our troops. So while I'll certainly concede that some polls may put the American public's support for Iraq lower than 2004, for me it's a matter of how easy/difficult it is to convert those feelings to votes one way or the other. FeartheReaper is acting like this is no contest and I don't believe it is.

The problem with 2004 is that Bush's plan and Kerry's plan for leaving Iraq were essentially the same thing. A few semantic differences here and there, but essentially they both wanted to "leave Iraq ... eventually." McCain and Obama are further apart in this regard, but do people disapprove of Iraq enough now to make those differences a deciding factor?


But he didn't, probably for the same reason the Democrats are likely to lose this time too: he assumed he had it locked up and forgot to actually run for President.



False. Kerry was a wooden and unpersonable candidate, just like Gore. Kerry and Gore also fell into the trap of fighting the non-issue battles that the Republicans choose. Obama has shown every indication so far, in his campaign against Hillary of not stooping to her ridiculous shots unless absolutely necessary. He doesn't allow his opponents to choose the battles.



While I agree that Kerry's personality was also a factor, I disagree with you here. Kerry made his entire campaign theme "I am not George Bush" which was fine for the people who really hated George Bush. But those people were going to vote for Kerry anyway, the rest of us wanted actual policy. You're right Kerry did get pulled into non-issue battles, but the blame for that did not lie so much with Republicans as with his own campaign and its utter lack of a specific plan. At the very last minute he came out with this healthcare scheme that he touted as "self-funding" ... but this concept itself was built on the supremely stupid assumption that a bill might go all the way through both houses of Congress without being modified in the slightest.

True, Obama doesn't have this problem, but that doesn't mean his campaign is any better. People are cynical: they've heard the "I'm going to change this town!" speech many times before and of course every politician at the beginning of their career in Washington plays the same card. This is where Obama's "experience" becomes an issue for his campaign: will people believe that Obama's speeches are naivete talking or will they take them seriously? If his campaign focuses on plans, specific reforms, etc then I believe he has a good chance. If "change" becomes political slang for "not Republican" then he will lose.

From the looks of his website he looks prepared to run a good campaign, and I like the reforms he's proposed. But he will have to answer critics who will say that he's better equipped to make such reforms as a Senator. The Constitution is set up in a way that makes reforms very difficult to initiate from the Executive Branch. I'd say he has better odds with a lot of the stuff he's put together as a charismatic Senator then as a controversial President. So this concerns me.

Sorry, that was a much longer response than I thought. I got a little too into it biggrin

FearTheReaper

FearTheReaper

NEWSWIRE

I'm lost

MAY 17, 2008 02:26 PM

ckdexterhaven said:

FearTheReaper said:
See, I attack people when they act like cunts. You asked for an attack and you got one. You're opening post was troll like and I was tired and responded in kind.


Are we really at the point where if someone disagrees with the "popular" opinion on here, they're considered a troll? His retort was no more troll-like than any of your articles. That must mean that... nah, couldn't be.



I guess the difference being I was not talking shit about the people on the site, but he was. My point was, which you missed, you can't act like a cunt, then get upset when someone calls you a cunt. He claims I am an example of the "problem," while doing the exact same thing. End of story.

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