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silversoul7

silversoul7

Portland, OR
January 2008

JUN 11, 2008 05:19 PM

I've got a question: If a man undergoes an operation to become a woman, can he/she then marry the man of his/her choosing?

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

JUN 11, 2008 06:04 PM

silversoul7 said:
I've got a question: If a man undergoes an operation to become a woman, can he/she then marry the man of his/her choosing?



Yes, but only if he gets himself legally recognized as a woman . . . I think. But I am not sure.

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

JUN 11, 2008 06:16 PM

bald_eagle said:

coyotemike said:

silversoul7 said:
I've got a question: If a man undergoes an operation to become a woman, can he/she then marry the man of his/her choosing?



Yes, but only if he gets himself legally recognized as a woman . . . I think. But I am not sure.



And what if he/she then reverses the process?



The couple is then exported to Finnland and sauna-ed to death.

scylis

scylis

USA
November 2004

JUN 11, 2008 07:17 PM

coyotemike said:

bald_eagle said:

coyotemike said:

silversoul7 said:
I've got a question: If a man undergoes an operation to become a woman, can he/she then marry the man of his/her choosing?



Yes, but only if he gets himself legally recognized as a woman . . . I think. But I am not sure.



And what if he/she then reverses the process?



The couple is then exported to Finnland and sauna-ed to death.



no, then the person is employed to teach 4th graders in a small, backwards Colorado town.

Otoki

Otoki

SUICIDEGIRL

Minnesota, USA

JUN 12, 2008 12:33 AM

NarcissistZero said:
Here... ok... let's do this as a comparison to interracial marriage.

Interracial marriage bans were unconstitutional. Under those laws, I can marry a white woman, but a Black man cannot. That is not equal access. The court was right to step in and end those laws.

However, under 48 state laws right now, neither I, nor a gay man, can marry my best friend, who is a man. Both of us can marry my girlfriend, however. We have equal rights.

Does this help anyone understand my point?



I just noticed you making the argument a ways back about "it's been man and woman since the beginning of the constitution" yada yada yada

For the record, the specific ideas attached to marriage (such as husband's ownership of his wife's possessions and person, his right to "discipline" his wife, etc etc) have been around since the beginning of the constitution. As women fought for their rights, these assumptions (reinforced by the law) were changed. The same thing happened with interracial marriage. Now it's happening with gay marriage.

I know this change might make you uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean it's bad. Letting black people be acknowledged as full-fledged humans made lots of people feel "uncomfortable" (and they expressed this discomfort with their peaceful protests via mass lynchings) but that doesn't support the argument today that it was the wrong thing to do.

gdarklighter said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

coyotemike said:

NarcissistZero said:
Here... ok... let's do this as a comparison to interracial marriage.

Interracial marriage bans were unconstitutional. Under those laws, I can marry a white woman, but a Black man cannot. That is not equal access. The court was right to step in and end those laws.

However, under 48 state laws right now, neither I, nor a gay man, can marry my best friend, who is a man. Both of us can marry my girlfriend, however. We have equal rights.

Does this help anyone understand my point?



In point of fact, you CANNOT both marry your girlfriend . . . that would be bigamy.

[/spoiler
How would that be big of you? She's not your girlfriend!

[spoiler]I thought this thread could use a bad pun. I apologize.


Groucho Marx is rolling in his grave.

malkav11

malkav11

Saint Paul, MN
July 2003

JUN 12, 2008 06:46 PM

Y'know, some of the most deeply religious people among the early colonists believed that marriage was entirely a secular affair and the church shouldn't be concerned with it whatsoever. How times change.

scylis

scylis

USA
November 2004

JUN 12, 2008 07:27 PM

malkav11 said:
Y'know, some of the most deeply religious people among the early colonists believed that marriage was entirely a secular affair and the church shouldn't be concerned with it whatsoever. How times change.



it's them goddamn queerosexuals. how dare they forward their secret agenda to carnally know all our great country's (UNDER GOD!) young boys by wanting to be left in peace!

insidious heathen curs!

silversoul7

silversoul7

Portland, OR
January 2008

JUN 12, 2008 09:33 PM

malkav11 said:
Y'know, some of the most deeply religious people among the early colonists believed that marriage was entirely a secular affair and the church shouldn't be concerned with it whatsoever. How times change.



I think you have it backwards. It was a strictly religious affair with no state recognition or regulation whatsoever. The government sanctioning of marriage began as a way to deter interracial marriage.

malkav11

malkav11

Saint Paul, MN
July 2003

JUN 12, 2008 09:43 PM

silversoul7 said:

malkav11 said:
Y'know, some of the most deeply religious people among the early colonists believed that marriage was entirely a secular affair and the church shouldn't be concerned with it whatsoever. How times change.



I think you have it backwards. It was a strictly religious affair with no state recognition or regulation whatsoever. The government sanctioning of marriage began as a way to deter interracial marriage.



Maybe for some people. I'm specifically referring to the Pilgrims:
http://www.mayflowerhistory.com/History/religion.php

(I originally read that elsewhere, but that's the first thing that came up when I searched for online sources. If you have a problem with it as a source, there were many others.)

gdarklighter

gdarklighter

San Diego, CA
August 2005

JUN 13, 2008 01:13 AM

Otoki said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)
I thought this thread could use a bad pun. I apologize.


Groucho Marx is rolling in his grave.
I've been working on offending the dead as a means of energy production. Unfortunately, it's hard to get permission to attach magnets to corpses.

scylis

scylis

USA
November 2004

JUN 17, 2008 11:11 PM

this is a bump to congratulate George Takei on getting his license.

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

JUN 18, 2008 07:18 AM

People here are really very excited about all of this for so many reasons, but there's been a lot of articles lately about how this is going to pump millions upon millions of dollars into the local economy. Unlike Massachusetts, non-residents can get married in California (suck it, massholes!), so people are literally flying in from all over the country and all over the world to get married in town hall, where it all started.

Side story: I know a couple who is getting straight married this Saturday at town hall. They booked their appointment six months ago thinking that, if it wasn't going to be that busy they'd be able to have their pictures taken on the rotunda steps. Somehow, I doubt that will happen now.

Quirky

Quirky

Birmingham, AL
October 2005

JUN 18, 2008 07:22 AM

Subrosa said:
People here are really very excited about all of this for so many reasons, but there's been a lot of articles lately about how this is going to pump millions upon millions of dollars into the local economy. Unlike Massachusetts, non-residents can get married in California (suck it, massholes!), so people are literally flying in from all over the country and all over the world to get married in town hall, where it all started.

Side story: I know a couple who is getting straight married this Saturday at town hall. They booked their appointment six months ago thinking that, if it wasn't going to be that busy they'd be able to have their pictures taken on the rotunda steps. Somehow, I doubt that will happen now.



Hey, at least their afterparty will be more fun than they had previously expected.

gdarklighter

gdarklighter

San Diego, CA
August 2005

JUN 18, 2008 08:27 AM

Subrosa said:
there's been a lot of articles lately about how this is going to pump millions upon millions of dollars into the local economy.


The local economy and the rather empty state treasury. Gay marriage: Saving our schools.

scylis

scylis

USA
November 2004

JUN 18, 2008 06:47 PM

bald_eagle said:

Subrosa said:
People here are really very excited about all of this for so many reasons, but there's been a lot of articles lately about how this is going to pump millions upon millions of dollars into the local economy.



So justice is good for business? Whoda thunk it?



EQUALITY: IT MAKES CAPITALISM WORK!

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