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motorfirebox

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA
March 2004

MAY 15, 2008 12:29 PM

having taken some time to consider it, i think it's less the surprise than the rejection that bothers me--the surprise is a factor of the rejection. the goal of breaking down intolerance is to bring the culture together. mocking, hating, disassociating yourself from the parts of your culture that you don't like--i don't see how that particularly furthers the goal.

as far as racism goes, yes, a lot of it is pretty complex. a lot of it also really is made up of poorly-educated, rural people who frequently have unpleasantly low standards of dental hygiene. i went to school with them. i went to college with some. i served in the military with quite a few. a lot of them are great guys--funny, clever, hard-working, patriotic (in their way). they're as wrong on some issues as Michael Jackson at an elementary school, but i don't think hating and rejecting them for it is a particularly good answer. i don't know what the answer is, but i'm pretty sure it's not that.

TAFKASP

TAFKASP

Oakland, CA
June 2003

MAY 15, 2008 01:08 PM

i often wonder about the women in these excerpts.

doesn't it give them any pause to know that there are plenty of ignorant men out there who wouldn't vote for Hillary for the mere fact that she's a woman?

or does self-justified racism trump self-justified sexism in their minds, somehow?

AceT

AceT

Portland, OR
April 2004

MAY 15, 2008 02:23 PM

SuicidePuppies said:
i often wonder about the women in these excerpts.

doesn't it give them any pause to know that there are plenty of ignorant men out there who wouldn't vote for Hillary for the mere fact that she's a woman?

or does self-justified racism trump self-justified sexism in their minds, somehow?


This was actually discussed in an article I was reading. 20% of WV voters said race played a role in their decision (the highest of any state, the next highest was Arkansas at 13.7%). More dumbfounding was that men said gender was a factor in their decision, even though most men voted for Hillary. Which means WV men are against the idea of a woman president, but they're against the idea of a black president more.

mydogfarted

mydogfarted

Oakland, NJ
June 2003

MAY 15, 2008 02:43 PM

AceT said:
Which means WV men are against the idea of a woman president, but they're against the idea of a black president more.



...and people called me a racist and an asshole a while back for saying that parts of this country just aren't ready for a black or woman president. Now I finally have proof that I'm just an asshole.

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

MAY 15, 2008 02:49 PM

mydogfarted said:

AceT said:
Which means WV men are against the idea of a woman president, but they're against the idea of a black president more.



...and people called me a racist and an asshole a while back for saying that parts of this country just aren't ready for a black or woman president. Now I finally have proof that I'm just an asshole.



The thing is, I think most people who used that argument months ago were suggesting that that would be a reason not to support Obama in the primary, which I think is foolish. There are only a handful of states where racism might make a difference, and most of them have been voting Republican for so long that it doesn't really matter that they wouldn't vote for Obama, since they wouldn't vote for a Democrat in any case anyhow.

That doesn't mean we should abandon the 50-state strategy, but it also doesn't mean we should abandon the better candidate just because he might not win the racist subset of deep-red states.

mydogfarted

mydogfarted

Oakland, NJ
June 2003

MAY 15, 2008 03:23 PM

bean said:

mydogfarted said:

AceT said:
Which means WV men are against the idea of a woman president, but they're against the idea of a black president more.



...and people called me a racist and an asshole a while back for saying that parts of this country just aren't ready for a black or woman president. Now I finally have proof that I'm just an asshole.



The thing is, I think most people who used that argument months ago were suggesting that that would be a reason not to support Obama in the primary, which I think is foolish. There are only a handful of states where racism might make a difference, and most of them have been voting Republican for so long that it doesn't really matter that they wouldn't vote for Obama, since they wouldn't vote for a Democrat in any case anyhow.

That doesn't mean we should abandon the 50-state strategy, but it also doesn't mean we should abandon the better candidate just because he might not win the racist subset of deep-red states.



My complete statement was "We could have another Republican president. I'm not so sure parts of this country are ready to vote for a black or a woman president", followed by "Think about it. Bush - two terms."

It is amazing to me that I'm seeing an important milestone in U.S. history - We're about to have our first MAJOR party presidential candidate for president that isn't a white man. Can you imagine trying to tell someone in WV 50 years ago that a black man would be running for president?

AceT

AceT

Portland, OR
April 2004

MAY 15, 2008 06:20 PM

bean said:

mydogfarted said:

AceT said:
Which means WV men are against the idea of a woman president, but they're against the idea of a black president more.



...and people called me a racist and an asshole a while back for saying that parts of this country just aren't ready for a black or woman president. Now I finally have proof that I'm just an asshole.



The thing is, I think most people who used that argument months ago were suggesting that that would be a reason not to support Obama in the primary, which I think is foolish. There are only a handful of states where racism might make a difference, and most of them have been voting Republican for so long that it doesn't really matter that they wouldn't vote for Obama, since they wouldn't vote for a Democrat in any case anyhow.

That doesn't mean we should abandon the 50-state strategy, but it also doesn't mean we should abandon the better candidate just because he might not win the racist subset of deep-red states.


I absolutely agree with you, but it's worth noting WV is a swing state. They voted for Clinton twice and Bush twice. So what these people say worries me.

OhSoOrdinary

OhSoOrdinary

New York, NY
July 2006

MAY 15, 2008 08:27 PM

bald_eagle said:
And if Obama wins, maybe West Virginia will secede from the Union.

Another good reason to support him.



I loved it!

anonymouse

anonymouse

Miami Beach, FL
OLD SKOOL

MAY 15, 2008 09:23 PM

bald_eagle said:
And if Obama wins, maybe West Virginia will secede from the Union.

Another good reason to support him.



My Daddy said the same thing!

phrogg

phrogg

Greenville, SC
August 2005

MAY 16, 2008 11:05 AM

bald_eagle said:
And if Obama wins, maybe West Virginia will secede from the Union.

Another good reason to support him.



Interesting to note that in 1863 the counties that comprise WVa seceded from Confederate Virginia and rejoined the Union. It wasn't, of course, for their great love of the blacks - they were at odds, politically and culturally, with Richmond and the Tidewater Virginians.

Kindle

Kindle

Houston, TX
March 2006

MAY 16, 2008 07:26 PM

Gah, not all of us from WV think like this. I swear it!

Can I have the group now? tongue

jason

jason

USA
August 2002

MAY 16, 2008 09:21 PM

there was an interesting story on npr last year about how illinois is the most "american" state (demographically) while west virginia was the least american state. im sure if you presented these facts to someone from west virginia they would probably tell you its just because they aint been infilterated yet.

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