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SockPuppet

SockPuppet

I'm lost
July 2006

JUN 04, 2008 05:59 PM

bald_eagle said:

SockPuppet said:

motorfirebox said:
the anecdotal nature of the observations has already been acknowledged by both sides.



Then you understand that these observations are best handled via blogs.


The thing that I notice is that they were initially expressed as facts, not opinions.

When challenged for the basis of his assertions, he said they were based on personal observations. In other words, he couldn't give a cogent basis for them as opinions, much less as facts as he originally presented them.



Ah. sorry. I've been trying to take him seriously; I assumed he had some basis for his statements. (I.e., I was too lazy or nauseated to check.)

motorfirebox

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA
March 2004

JUN 04, 2008 06:22 PM

SockPuppet said:
Then you understand that these observations are best handled via blogs.


yes, because a discussion board is certainly no place for opinions.

bald_eagle said:
The thing that I notice is that they were initially expressed as facts, not opinions.

When challenged for the basis of his assertions, he said they were based on personal observations. In other words, he couldn't give a cogent basis for them as opinions, much less as facts as he originally presented them.


his statements were obviously subjective, and should be taken as such. to view them otherwise is to be deliberately obtuse.

and i'm still wondering what's so offensive about these observations.

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

JUN 04, 2008 07:29 PM

motorfirebox said:

SockPuppet said:
Then you understand that these observations are best handled via blogs.


yes, because a discussion board is certainly no place for opinions.

bald_eagle said:
The thing that I notice is that they were initially expressed as facts, not opinions.

When challenged for the basis of his assertions, he said they were based on personal observations. In other words, he couldn't give a cogent basis for them as opinions, much less as facts as he originally presented them.


his statements were obviously subjective, and should be taken as such. to view them otherwise is to be deliberately obtuse.

and i'm still wondering what's so offensive about these observations.



I found it offensive because he said, without any qualification, that all people in the North are racist. Simple as that. I quoted it more than once. And not only is that an offensive charge, it is completely unsupportable. Yes, he meant it as an abstract generalization based on his limited observations. But it was such a worthless observation that it should be attacked.

motorfirebox

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA
March 2004

JUN 04, 2008 07:33 PM

he used a conversational shortcut that is quite common on this and most other internet forums. the only motive i can conjure for haranguing him for it after he has admitted his mistake is a desire to avoid discussing the subject.

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

JUN 04, 2008 07:47 PM

motorfirebox said:
he used a conversational shortcut that is quite common on this and most other internet forums. the only motive i can conjure for haranguing him for it after he has admitted his mistake is a desire to avoid discussing the subject.



What was the subject? I forget.

LostLucy

LostLucy

USA
December 2006

JUN 04, 2008 07:47 PM

What was unclear here?

There were some broad sweeping remarks made here that are shocking. Are you discounting the interacial marriages in the north when you say"Whites in teh north do not like individual blacks", for instance.

Move on. we discuss race in context but need not waste time trying to explain.


coyotemike said:

Domo_Kun said:

Toku666 said:

Domo_Kun said:

Uglynproud said:

Alfaduetto said:
Being a rehabilitated Yankee [PA]myself, I was really taken aback by the evolution of the new racist states. They ain't in the south no mo they're up North. That's the great circle of life I guess Simba.




I moved from the North to the South 6 years ago, and that was the first thing I noticed. Friends in New York still don't believe me. The North is a way more racist than the South, but the media keeps perpetuating the old Southern Racist stereotype.



There's a different dynamic in the North. In the North, white people do not like individual black people, but love them as a group. In the South, racism is manifested by hatred toward black people as a group, while many white racists may like individual black folks.

For example, a white man living in Chicago is more likely to express an opinion against racial profiling and in support of Affirmative Action, but is also more likely to draw his children closer to him if he encounters a black man on the street, or move out of his neighbourhood if a black family moves in.



So please link us to the abstract for the intensive sociological study you are either citing or have conducted yourself.

...because otherwise you're talking complete shit.

We can certainly all hypothesize about the characterization of racism in the North versus the South, but without something solid to go on, we're (at best) talking about personal experiences. And don't ever forget that plenty of racists know they're not "supposed to be" racists, and don't ever let anybody know how they really feel.



Where the fuck did I cite any sort of study? It was purely conjecture based on my own observations, and was supposed to be taken as such.



Your own observations are bullshit. White Flight hasn't happened in years, and unless you observed how your hypothetical white guy on the street with his kids reacts to EVERY stranger they encounter on a daily basis (and discounting the possibility that the probable 1 person you saw do this isn't an individual racist) you have really said nothing.



motorfirebox

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA
March 2004

JUN 04, 2008 08:14 PM

coyotemike said:
I found it offensive because he said, without any qualification, that all people in the North are racist. Simple as that.


i read it as a description of what racism is like in the north. to say that all people in the north are racist would be fairly confrontational; since Domo_Kun's tone was not confrontational, my assumption was that his statement was intended to be applied only to the group being discussed--namely, racists. ie, it should not have been taken as a blanket statement concerning all northerners.

LostLucy

LostLucy

USA
December 2006

JUN 04, 2008 09:57 PM

motorfirebox said:

coyotemike said:
I found it offensive because he said, without any qualification, that all people in the North are racist. Simple as that.


i read it as a description of what racism is like in the north. to say that all people in the north are racist would be fairly confrontational; since Domo_Kun's tone was not confrontational, my assumption was that his statement was intended to be applied only to the group being discussed--namely, racists. ie, it should not have been taken as a blanket statement concerning all northerners.



This is an interactive internet forum where everyone tries to discuss current events. It is debate at times, a cocktail party at other times.

You will note people wanting a civilized discourse generally tend to, try to express opinions with qualifiers and facts with sources. You will also note that people try to stay on topic in conversations.

He did make broad sweeping generalizations without qualifying them, and people did take umbrage, and here you are a day later trying to explain and defend these remarks, and here I am trying to say ...

Negative racial stereotypes stated as facts can and do hurt feelings.

Here in this thread we were discussing Hilary Clinton leaving the race, and how she wouldn't.

SO when he inserted his feelings as fact...

everyone walked away from him at the cocktail party.

Not because we aren't intelligent people looking to have civilized discourse, but because perpetuating these stereotypes is not helpful and dated.

People tried to explain this. I'm sorry if you don;t understand where the hostility comes from. You missed something. Go back because even your friend understood to let it die...



bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

JUN 05, 2008 12:02 AM

zoom image

This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

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