half way though. But I got the message. Cheney and Rumsfeld are teh debil.

I like Frontline a lot, but they really let themselves go on everything Iraq. Their bias is overwhelming. Especially the episode where they painted the invasion of Iraq as an epic military blunder. An entire country of 25 million conquered in 2 weeks by another nation on the opposite side of the globe was depicted as an incompetent failure.

It is a epic military blunder. One would think a war hawk like you would argue that the intelligence was misused, because if your claims were correct, it would show our true adversaries that America's intelligence community is blind or stupid.

The real blunder is that we've shown our hand; the Rumsfeld-transformation ruined the military and proven America can barely handle two small fronts.

Coyotemike

USA

May 2006

MAR 29, 2008 11:07 PM

Chainlink said:

coyotemike said:

Chainlink said:

Woodward quotes Bush as saying he did not feel the need to ask his principal advisers, including Cheney, Rumsfeld and Powell, whether they thought he ought to go to war because "I could tell what they thought."

Bush Knew there were WMDs in Iraq because HE CAN READ MINDS !

Just goes to show what cocaine/alcoholism does to the brain, even years later.

At least I can still be President Of the United States.

I dunno, you're still fairly coherent . . . try slamming your head on your desk a few hundred times until you can't pronounce "nuclear" correctly. Then you will know you are ready for office.

*EDIT: On that note, I'm going to bed. The rest of you may contine to club the baby seal that is stockula without me for a few hours.

stockula

Anchorage, AK

May 2003

MAR 29, 2008 11:10 PM

bald_eagle said:

stockula said:

bald_eagle said:

In case you didn't hear about it, one of the main points that made us so sure that Iraq posed a threat was the yellowcake assertion. It was bogus, and the CIA tried to tell Bush it couldn't be relied on.

According to White House and some intelligence officials, four days after the report was issued and was in the hands of a number of lawmakers, Mr. Tenet called a Bush aide and asked that any reference to allegations that Iraq had sought to obtain 500 metric tons of uranium yellowcake in Niger be removed from a speech President Bush was to give in Cincinnati.
...
Mr. Tenet told Mr. Hadley that the C.I.A. was not sure about the credibility of the information.

NY Times

If I told you that yellowcake was discovered in Iraq after the invasion, would that change your mind?

Nice try.

A spokeswoman for the International Atomic Energy Agency said the Rotterdam specimen was scarcely refined at all from natural uranium ore and may have come from a known mine in Iraq that was active before the 1991 Gulf War.

USA Today

Domestically-produced, low-grade yellowcake had nothing to do with the bogus report that weapons-grade stuff was being sought from Africa. Even the Bush administration has admitted that it was wrong about that.

The IAEA isn't a trustworthy agency. They turn a blind eye to nuke development. They have a very old idea that appeasing aggressive violators of the UN's motions will somehow ensure peace. It won't. Iran will develop nukes, and it will use them to destroy Israel.

Chainlink

Key West, FL

August 2005

MAR 29, 2008 11:11 PM

stockula said:

Chainlink said:

coyotemike said:

stockula said:

coyotemike said:

stockula said:
Really? Bush was told by George Tenet that the WMD justification for war was a slam dunk. He was not exactly a Neo-con or Cheney-Rumsfeld type. He thought Iraq had the stuff. As did Bush's predessecors. All the PBS documentaries in the world will not change that.

Citation? Proof? Anything?

this is what annoys me about SG CE, I have to explain common knowledge. I even have to cite proof Democrats oppose the Iraq war.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/18/woodward.book/

Oh, man, your link is PRICELESS!!! First, it is 4 years out of date. Second, it is from Bob Woodward . . . the reporter who outed Valerie Plame as a CIA agent and who has been a bosom buddy to Dubya for years. Not exactly what I would call an impeachable source.

I love how it says right here . .

The book is based on interviews with 75 people involved in planning for the war, including Bush, the only source who spoke for attribution.

yeah , thats valid.

Yeah, who wants to hear from the principal players? We want the speculative outsiders and conspiracy theoriests!

The lead dipshit and 74 unnamed parrots hardly constitute anything more than propaganda.

Do you really honestly believe that Bush consulted with Condoleezza Rice but did not discuss invading Iraq with Cheney, Rumsfeld or Powell ?

. . . because he " could tell what they thought." ???

scylis

USA

November 2004

MAR 29, 2008 11:12 PM

science help me, they're all fucks.

i mean, i knew, intellectually, that they were thinking Iraq from the start, but seeing so science-blasted many people actually say it is just infuriating in the extreme.

and that settles it, any time i see Dick Cheney, i'm going to play the Emperor's theme, if i can. in my head, if nothing else.

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

stockula

Anchorage, AK

May 2003

MAR 29, 2008 11:21 PM

Chainlink said:

Do you really honestly believe that Bush consulted with Condoleezza Rice but did not discuss invading Iraq with Cheney, Rumsfeld or Powell ?

. . . because he " could tell what they thought." ???

TheFuckOffKid

NEWSWIRE

Australia

MAR 29, 2008 11:31 PM

stockula said:

It's from your linked story.

RedBstrd

Riverside, CA

April 2004

MAR 30, 2008 08:02 AM

IDGAS said:

"The president carries the biggest burden, obviously," Cheney said. (source)

Dick, you are a fucking asshole

He means burden of guilt.

Chainlink

Key West, FL

August 2005

MAR 30, 2008 08:35 AM

Chainlink

Key West, FL

August 2005

MAR 30, 2008 08:41 AM

TheFuckOffKid said:

stockula said:

It's from your linked story.

. . . and now, brought to you fresh from an National Geographic tongue wrangling documentary deep in the Outback , here is TheFuckOffKid to present this years trophy for Exceptional Dementedness . . .

Coyotemike

USA

May 2006

MAR 30, 2008 08:54 AM

Chainlink said:

Well, that just proves Bush's innocence. Between the self-pardon and his rathole escape-ranch in South America, don't be surprised if Bush doesn't have a network set up to get him out of the country as soon as Obama is sworn into office.

Coyotemike

USA

May 2006

MAR 30, 2008 08:57 AM

stockula said:

Chainlink said:

coyotemike said:

stockula said:

coyotemike said:

Citation? Proof? Anything?

this is what annoys me about SG CE, I have to explain common knowledge. I even have to cite proof Democrats oppose the Iraq war.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/18/woodward.book/

I love how it says right here . .

The book is based on interviews with 75 people involved in planning for the war, including Bush, the only source who spoke for attribution.

yeah , thats valid.

Yeah, who wants to hear from the principal players? We want the speculative outsiders and conspiracy theoriests!

Yeah, principle players . . . like the CIA agents and analysts, military officers, any of Bush's people who disagreed with Rumsfeld . . . you know, the people who were featured and told their stories on the program.

Does your brain ever work?

Coyotemike

USA

May 2006

MAR 30, 2008 08:58 AM

stockula said:

SockPuppet said:

stockula said:

coyotemike said:

stockula said:

coyotemike said:
Stockula, go back and watch the whole thing. Take notes. You will learn that every little bit of "evidence" that was claimed as legitimate/sufficient reason to go to war in Iraq came under one of three categories:

1. Bad Intel
2. Blown out of proportion from minute evidence
3. Completely fabricated.

There was no cause to go to war. There was no justification. We especially cannot justify "we were saving the Iraqi people" when there are many places where even worse kinds of governement abuse. (Darfur springs to mind)

No we were entirely justified in going to war.

How?

It was the moral course. Going to war now would avoid more casualties in the future.

Source, please.

Source is WWII.

When MP Churchill brought attention to the Germans gearing up for war against treaty strictures and proposed stopping them, he was shouted down because no one wanted war.
Hitler could have been stopped, and people would have died, but the carnage would not have been anything close to the final total of WWII.

So we had a just war with 50,000,000 dead or we could have had an unjust pre-emptive war with less than 1,000,000 dead.

Which would be more moral?

To quote Dilbert, "I respectfully decline your invitation to join your hallucinations."

To quote Dogbert, "Bah!" *waves paw dismissivly*

SockPuppet

I'm lost

July 2006

MAR 30, 2008 01:16 PM

stockula said:

TheFuckOffKid said:

stockula said:
I even have to cite proof Democrats oppose the Iraq war.

Whaaaaaaat?

Yes. To Sockpuppet. When I said Democrats and leftists opposed the war, he demanded a source to prove it.

I forget which thread that was in. Remind me, please. Since it stuck in your memory.

SockPuppet

I'm lost

July 2006

MAR 30, 2008 01:17 PM

SockPuppet said:

stockula said:

SockPuppet said:

stockula said:

SockPuppet said:
<snpi>
Lucky for him he didn't have to deal with anything of the sort.

Do tell us how what happened was in the interests of American national security.

After 9/11, we were shocked by what could be accomplished by just using civil infrastructure to inlict mass casualities. What if the people who pulled off 9/11 had support from enemy states with access to WMD? How many would die then?

So we aimed to take out the number one enemy of the USA with ties to islamic terrorists who we thought was developing WMD.

Despite all the evidence from IAEA and others.
Despite all the bombing and interdiction and sanctions on Iraq between the end of Desert Storm and 2001.
Despite the fact that W was desperately looking for an external enemy in early 2001 - remember that spyplane crash off China?

And your idea that you're part of the US government is cute. "We", indeed.

We as in my country.

And the rest of my post?

No? Nothing?

SockPuppet

I'm lost

July 2006

MAR 31, 2008 12:28 AM

SockPuppet said:

stockula said:

TheFuckOffKid said:

stockula said:
I even have to cite proof Democrats oppose the Iraq war.

Whaaaaaaat?

Yes. To Sockpuppet. When I said Democrats and leftists opposed the war, he demanded a source to prove it.

I forget which thread that was in. Remind me, please. Since it stuck in your memory.

Because I don't think that's what I said, you see. So, show me.

TheFuckOffKid

NEWSWIRE

Australia

MAR 31, 2008 12:45 AM

Chainlink said:
. . . and now, brought to you fresh from an National Geographic tongue wrangling documentary deep in the Outback , here is TheFuckOffKid to present this years trophy for Exceptional Dementedness . . .

Too late!

I have to give him the Courageous Silence in Rapid Retreat trophy instead.

He has several dozen of these on his shelves already.

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_kungfoo_

Los Angeles, CA

April 2005

MAR 29, 2008 11:07 PM

USA

May 2006

MAR 29, 2008 11:07 PM

Anchorage, AK

May 2003

MAR 29, 2008 11:10 PM

Key West, FL

August 2005

MAR 29, 2008 11:11 PM

USA

November 2004

MAR 29, 2008 11:12 PM

Anchorage, AK

May 2003

MAR 29, 2008 11:21 PM

NEWSWIRE

Australia

MAR 29, 2008 11:31 PM

Riverside, CA

April 2004

MAR 30, 2008 08:02 AM

Key West, FL

August 2005

MAR 30, 2008 08:35 AM

Key West, FL

August 2005

MAR 30, 2008 08:41 AM

USA

May 2006

MAR 30, 2008 08:54 AM

USA

May 2006

MAR 30, 2008 08:57 AM

USA

May 2006

MAR 30, 2008 08:58 AM

I'm lost

July 2006

MAR 30, 2008 01:16 PM

I'm lost

July 2006

MAR 30, 2008 01:17 PM

I'm lost

July 2006

MAR 31, 2008 12:28 AM

NEWSWIRE

Australia

MAR 31, 2008 12:45 AM