TOPICS:
MAR 24, 2008 12:00 AM
Crazy white religious people spout insane b.s. all the time. And sometimes, religious people of other races say things like that too. Two wrongs don't make a right.
It seems kindof sad to me that many people feel the need to defend some of Wright's comments just because they support Obama.
Mostly, the whole thing makes me sad. I like to think we've come farther than this in America, where we don't have to lump everybody of one race together in any kind of statement. Bagging on Hillary because she's "never been called a nigger" seemed low to me as well, with all the shit people call her. Do you think Obama's ever been called a slut, or a bitch, or a ho?
Somehow I have a feeling that when MLK Jr. spoke about a dream, it didn't include lumping all whites in with the KKK or preaching about how the govt. is actively to kill blacks by creating AIDS.
MAR 24, 2008 12:15 AM
chocohoodie said:
Mostly, the whole thing makes me sad. I like to think we've come farther than this in America, where we don't have to lump everybody of one race together in any kind of statement. Bagging on Hillary because she's "never been called a nigger" seemed low to me as well, with all the shit people call her. Do you think Obama's ever been called a slut, or a bitch, or a ho?
.
First, congrats on totally missing the point of that statement. Try listening again, maybe you'll pick it up the second time.
chocohoodie said:
Crazy white religious people spout insane b.s. all the time. And sometimes, religious people of other races say things like that too. Two wrongs don't make a right.
.
We're actually discussing hypocrisy. Might want to join the actual discussion.
chocohoodie said:
It seems kindof sad to me that many people feel the need to defend some of Wright's comments just because they support Obama..
What a ridiculous statement. I defended Wright's comments about our foreign policy leading to the attacks because it is the same as my long held belief. You're choice of attack is absurdly simplistic and without merit.
chocohoodie said:
Somehow I have a feeling that when MLK Jr. spoke about a dream, it didn't include lumping all whites in with the KKK or preaching about how the govt. is actively to kill blacks by creating AIDS.
Great point. Now who compared Wright to MLK? Or do you just compare all black people who speak in front of crowds without understanding you're being racist?
MAR 24, 2008 10:20 PM
A couple of points:
- Some REAL radicals consider guys like Wright to be all talk and no action. If you notice: for all of Wright's words, he never tells people to take arms and attack the government, or start an insurrection, for example.
He talks of GOD'S PUNISHMENT but never makes a challenge to the people in his church to be the instruments of God's punishment. Put in another, Wright's language is strident, but not truly militant or action oriented.
Bottom line is, for all his talk, Wright is not a threat. To anybody.
- Many people don't know this, but Wright's church has built housing for the elderly, an inner city hospice, day care facilities, after school activities to keep kids off the street, etc. It is NOT an exaggeration to say that his church is one of the best example of faith-based social service in Chicago.
If not for Wright's bluster, the Bush administration would be giving this guy money.
MAR 25, 2008 12:13 AM
Your ability to be a fucking asshole never ceases to amaze me.
FearTheReaperFirst, congrats on totally missing the point of that statement. Try listening again, maybe you'll pick it up the second time.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the point of the statement is that Obama's experienced unfair treatment, partially because he is black, and HIllary's sailed through. I call bullshit. Of course being black in America gives you a disadvantage. Guess what? Being a woman, especially one seeking to break down barriers, gives you a disadvantage too.
FearTheReaper
We're actually discussing hypocrisy. Might want to join the actual discussion.
You mean the hypocrisy of being a post-racial candidate while simultaneously having a pastor who clearly isn't 100% onboard with that world view?
FearTheReaper
What a ridiculous statement. I defended Wright's comments about our foreign policy leading to the attacks because it is the same as my long held belief. You're choice of attack is absurdly simplistic and without merit.
1) Awesome job assuming that I was referring to you; I wasn't. Notice how I said "some people." 2) Also notice that I didn't even mention his 9/11 statement. I am aware that he was quoting somebody else there, and I agree that some of our past actions have had lasting repercussions. Does that mean we deserved it? No. I don't know whether that's his opinion or not. I do think it's silly that he brought up Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Regardless of whether or not you think it was a moral act, it has little to do with Islamic extremism unless you believe 9/11 happened for pure karma reasons, a la Jerry Falwell. And if that's the belief, one could argue that the dropping of those bombs on Japan was karma for the horrendous wartime atrocities of the Japanese. War is tragic.
FearTheReaper
Great point. Now who compared Wright to MLK? Or do you just compare all black people who speak in front of crowds without understanding you're being racist?
Amazing. I complain about somebody wanting to lump me in with the KKK, and that makes me the racist. I brought up MLK because so many Obama supporters have been fond of drawing a comparison between them, duh.
MAR 25, 2008 12:34 AM
Addendum: I understand the point of your article is that there's a media uproar over Wright's comments while far less attention is given to people like Robertson. It's a valid point, and the real problem there is that there's a level of acceptance of similar statements among conservative evangelicals. But the fact that there are white people saying crazier shit than him isn't going to make me ignore his statements.
MAR 25, 2008 12:58 AM
And on ignore you go. Your words are actually unworthy of my eyeballs and your reasoning is equal to a baboon.
MAR 25, 2008 04:09 PM
High five to CNN for playing some of his statements in their original context.
Transcript below:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. JEREMIAH WRIGHT, TRINITY UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST: Governments fail. The government in this text comprised of Caesar, Carrillous (ph), Pontius Pilate, the Roman government failed. The British government used to rule from east to west. The British government had a union jacket. She colonized Kenya, Ghana, Nigeria, Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad, and Hong Kong. Her navies rule the seven seas all the way down to the tip of Argentina in the fork lift, but the British government failed. The Russian government failed. The Japanese government failed. The German government failed.
And the United States of America government, when it came to treating her citizens of Indian descent, she failed. She put them on reservations. When it came to putting her citizens of Japanese descent fairly, she failed. She put them in interment prison camps.
When it came to putting the citizens of African descent fairly, America failed. She put them in chains. The government put them on slave quarters. Put them on auction blocks. Put them in cotton fields. Put them in inferior schools. Put them in substandard housing. Put them scientific experiments. Put them in the lower paying jobs. Put them outside the equal protection of the law. Kept them out of their racist bastions of higher education, and locked them into positions of hopelessness and helplessness. The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three strike law and then wants us to sing God Bless America. No, no, no. Not God Bless America. God Damn America! That's in the Bible, for killing innocent people. God Damn America for treating us citizens as less than human. God Damn America as long as she tries to act like she is God and she is Supreme.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Fiery words. Joining us now is Dwight Hopkins. He's an ordained minister himself and a member in good standing at the Trinity United Church of Christ.
Mr. Hopkins, thank you for joing us, sir. Do you believe that by playing that larger soundbite, it puts in context what is the true ideology of your church?
DWIGHT HOPKINS, TRINITY UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST: Well, I think it definitely is a step towards clarity by contextualizing the 30- second soundbites. Because what he says, if you listen closely, Reverend Wright says if she continues to play the role of God, if America continues to act as if she is God. And there as he says -- literally in the Bible, he's talking about particularly the Old Testament where Yahweh God condemns ancient Israel for trying to either turn away from God or trying to act like God.
Someone find the clip, my Iraqi internet just don't have the bandwidth for that YouTube contraption.
The segment's whole transcript.
MAR 25, 2008 04:36 PM
Pfffft. My overweight born-Texan cigar-chomping Lutheran pastor said more offensive shit than that.
MAR 25, 2008 11:24 PM
FearTheReaper said:
And on ignore you go. Your words are actually unworthy of my eyeballs and your reasoning is equal to a baboon.
Nice. And I even made an effort to acknowledge your point.
When in doubt, bow out?
LostLucy
USA
December 2006
MAR 26, 2008 04:55 PM
OhSoOrdinary said:
High five to CNN for playing some of his statements in their original context.
Transcript below:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. JEREMIAH WRIGHT, TRINITY UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST: Governments fail. The government in this text comprised of Caesar, Carrillous (ph), Pontius Pilate, the Roman government failed. The British government used to rule from east to west. The British government had a union jacket. She colonized Kenya, Ghana, Nigeria, Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad, and Hong Kong. Her navies rule the seven seas all the way down to the tip of Argentina in the fork lift, but the British government failed. The Russian government failed. The Japanese government failed. The German government failed.
And the United States of America government, when it came to treating her citizens of Indian descent, she failed. She put them on reservations. When it came to putting her citizens of Japanese descent fairly, she failed. She put them in interment prison camps.
When it came to putting the citizens of African descent fairly, America failed. She put them in chains. The government put them on slave quarters. Put them on auction blocks. Put them in cotton fields. Put them in inferior schools. Put them in substandard housing. Put them scientific experiments. Put them in the lower paying jobs. Put them outside the equal protection of the law. Kept them out of their racist bastions of higher education, and locked them into positions of hopelessness and helplessness. The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three strike law and then wants us to sing God Bless America. No, no, no. Not God Bless America. God Damn America! That's in the Bible, for killing innocent people. God Damn America for treating us citizens as less than human. God Damn America as long as she tries to act like she is God and she is Supreme.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Fiery words. Joining us now is Dwight Hopkins. He's an ordained minister himself and a member in good standing at the Trinity United Church of Christ.
Mr. Hopkins, thank you for joing us, sir. Do you believe that by playing that larger soundbite, it puts in context what is the true ideology of your church?
DWIGHT HOPKINS, TRINITY UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST: Well, I think it definitely is a step towards clarity by contextualizing the 30- second soundbites. Because what he says, if you listen closely, Reverend Wright says if she continues to play the role of God, if America continues to act as if she is God. And there as he says -- literally in the Bible, he's talking about particularly the Old Testament where Yahweh God condemns ancient Israel for trying to either turn away from God or trying to act like God.
Someone find the clip, my Iraqi internet just don't have the bandwidth for that YouTube contraption.
The segment's whole transcript.
True. HE also apparently was quoting U.S. Ambassador Peck, who said on Fox news the day before, the comment abt the "chickens coming home to roost"
MAR 30, 2008 01:44 PM
LostLucy said:
OhSoOrdinary said:
High five to CNN for playing some of his statements in their original context.
Transcript below:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. JEREMIAH WRIGHT, TRINITY UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST: Governments fail. The government in this text comprised of Caesar, Carrillous (ph), Pontius Pilate, the Roman government failed. The British government used to rule from east to west. The British government had a union jacket. She colonized Kenya, Ghana, Nigeria, Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad, and Hong Kong. Her navies rule the seven seas all the way down to the tip of Argentina in the fork lift, but the British government failed. The Russian government failed. The Japanese government failed. The German government failed.
And the United States of America government, when it came to treating her citizens of Indian descent, she failed. She put them on reservations. When it came to putting her citizens of Japanese descent fairly, she failed. She put them in interment prison camps.
When it came to putting the citizens of African descent fairly, America failed. She put them in chains. The government put them on slave quarters. Put them on auction blocks. Put them in cotton fields. Put them in inferior schools. Put them in substandard housing. Put them scientific experiments. Put them in the lower paying jobs. Put them outside the equal protection of the law. Kept them out of their racist bastions of higher education, and locked them into positions of hopelessness and helplessness. The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three strike law and then wants us to sing God Bless America. No, no, no. Not God Bless America. God Damn America! That's in the Bible, for killing innocent people. God Damn America for treating us citizens as less than human. God Damn America as long as she tries to act like she is God and she is Supreme.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Fiery words. Joining us now is Dwight Hopkins. He's an ordained minister himself and a member in good standing at the Trinity United Church of Christ.
Mr. Hopkins, thank you for joing us, sir. Do you believe that by playing that larger soundbite, it puts in context what is the true ideology of your church?
DWIGHT HOPKINS, TRINITY UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST: Well, I think it definitely is a step towards clarity by contextualizing the 30- second soundbites. Because what he says, if you listen closely, Reverend Wright says if she continues to play the role of God, if America continues to act as if she is God. And there as he says -- literally in the Bible, he's talking about particularly the Old Testament where Yahweh God condemns ancient Israel for trying to either turn away from God or trying to act like God.
Someone find the clip, my Iraqi internet just don't have the bandwidth for that YouTube contraption.
The segment's whole transcript.
True. HE also apparently was quoting U.S. Ambassador Peck, who said on Fox news the day before, the comment abt the "chickens coming home to roost"
Interestingly I just heard that statement made by Denzel Washington playing Malcom X. If Malcom X said it then I'm sure it is a familiar theme.
Wikipedia:
When asked for a comment about the assassination of President Kennedy in November 1963, Malcolm said that it was a case of "the chickens coming home to roost." He added that "Chickens coming home to roost never made me sad. It only made me glad." This remark prompted a widespread public outcry. The Nation of Islam publicly censured their former shining star. Although Malcolm retained his post and rank as minister, Elijah Muhammad banned him from public speaking for 90 days.
I think the meaning is essentially saying, "Not our problem". In other words 9/11 is a white man's problem created by white men. I don't think it's a very offense statement. It is radical and separatist but not offensive, and not hard to sympathize with either. Maybe Malcolm X was even more radical by saying he was "glad" but he was currently indicting white society and who was doing that prior? It had to be done and now it can be healed.
Instead of hearing the reverend's statement as you do now, hear it paraphrased it this way, instead of hearing "white people" hear "people with power".
"9/11 (JFK Assassignation) is a problem caused by people with power and is directed towards people with power. "
I hope this helps.
MAR 30, 2008 04:44 PM
The CIA has made a mess, with their INCOMPETENCE over the last 60 years.
AND they didn't listen to the FBI who told them to "check out the flight-training schools" in Florida.
The CIA and Oil companies have created a lot of ill-will overseas.
But I WOULD NEVER say we deserved 9-11. That's fucked-up.
MAR 30, 2008 05:24 PM
There's a difference between saying "9/11 happened as a result of our foreign policy" and "we deserved 9/11". A pretty big one.
MAR 30, 2008 05:52 PM
Well, that's what you have to sort out.
I don't think anyone deserved 9/11. I could be wrong but I don't think JFK deserved that bullet either. Nor do I think gay people deserve that disease. Nor do addicts deserve debilitating addictions like meth or crack. Nor do soldier deserve Iraqi bullets and PTSD. Nor does anyone deserve the suffering that isn't even on your radar. Maybe its genocidal rape, medical bankruptcy, prisoners with undiagnosed mental illnesses, innocent people pressured by strong-arm plea bargaining tactics to declare themselves guilty, gay and lesbian domestic abuse, societal victim blaming of every sort, the list goes on and on and on and on and on. Live are being destroyed every single day, more than were destroyed in those towers. You do the math and see if everybody is going to be angry about the exact same things or if they are going to sometimes reject your hurt as they feel theirs has been rejected, especially if it seems to be divided by "groups". It's not a realization that you can't get past. Nor is it a requirement to let go of your own pain.
Essentially you are saying "The Other" is making too light of your pain. Basically there has been an overall struggle of who's pain gets to be made light of. But you might not be ready to let go of enough of your pain to see from this perspective. That's very real.
I hope that preaching equanimity doesn't make me seem like too much of a monster.
MAR 31, 2008 04:32 PM
Toku666 said:
Pfffft. My overweight born-Texan cigar-chomping Lutheran pastor said more offensive shit than that.
Yeah, but you're not running for President.
APR 01, 2008 01:17 AM
Jesus doesn't hate anything. Im sure Jesus would have a stern talking to with some people (specifically the UN, Feminists, abortionist, and liberals) but Jesus can't hate people!
But yes, Wright is a scary man. i won't opine on it because i'm not articulate enough to get my point across without sounding like a racist, if thats even possible and you're a white male.
APR 01, 2008 01:39 AM
SergeantPsycho said:
Toku666 said:
Pfffft. My overweight born-Texan cigar-chomping Lutheran pastor said more offensive shit than that.
Yeah, but you're not running for President.
Neither is Wright.
APR 01, 2008 01:58 AM
i sure won't vote for that guy, now.
wouldn't want a minister in the Oval Office, anyway.
APR 01, 2008 02:29 AM
MrStitches said:
SergeantPsycho said:
Toku666 said:
Pfffft. My overweight born-Texan cigar-chomping Lutheran pastor said more offensive shit than that.
Yeah, but you're not running for President.
Neither is Wright.
Yeah, but Obama is, and he's happily went along with a guy spouting hate about the US for 20 years. I remember one of the criticsms of McCain made here was that he met with some pastor who was clearly racist. But Obama didn't just meet this guy, he went to his sermons for 20 years!
Quirky
Birmingham, AL
October 2005
APR 01, 2008 02:30 AM
SergeantPsycho said:
MrStitches said:
SergeantPsycho said:
Toku666 said:
Pfffft. My overweight born-Texan cigar-chomping Lutheran pastor said more offensive shit than that.
Yeah, but you're not running for President.
Neither is Wright.
Yeah, but Obama is, and he's happily went along with a guy spouting hate about the US for 20 years. I remember one of the criticsms of McCain made here was that he met with some pastor who was clearly racist. But Obama didn't just meet this guy, he went to his sermons for 20 years!
Whoop-de-shit!
APR 01, 2008 03:23 AM
FondleMyBalzac said:
SergeantPsycho said:
MrStitches said:
SergeantPsycho said:
Toku666 said:
Pfffft. My overweight born-Texan cigar-chomping Lutheran pastor said more offensive shit than that.
Yeah, but you're not running for President.
Neither is Wright.
Yeah, but Obama is, and he's happily went along with a guy spouting hate about the US for 20 years. I remember one of the criticsms of McCain made here was that he met with some pastor who was clearly racist. But Obama didn't just meet this guy, he went to his sermons for 20 years!
Whoop-de-shit!
Well, it may be whoop-de-shit to you, but keep in mind that your vote is one among how ever many tens of millions of votes Obama needs to win. A large portion of those tens of millions are white people who probably wouldn't think very highly of Obama associating himself with Wright.
APR 01, 2008 04:51 AM
goatinamoat said:
RedBstrd said:
[Truman had non-military concerns in mind when he ordered the bomb to be dropped. His concern was intimidating the Soviet Union. We unnecessarily targeted a civilian population to intimidate a foreign power (the USSR). As such, the act constitutes a textbook example of terrorism.
I deeply respect what you posted and the civility in which you did so. I am going to re-examine my beliefs in this matter.
I am in a multi-campus (4 universities and 6 professors) Soviet history class right now. Interestingly, I found out today that Tsuyoshi Hasegawa is going to be one of them. He's the historian most famous for arguing (in Racing the Enemy) that the Japanese surrendered primarily due to the Soviet invasion of Japanese-occupied Manchukuo - and not because of the bomb. So, we'll read his book and he'll lecture/lead a discussion session on it.
I don't yet know how strong his argument is...
APR 01, 2008 05:57 AM
kborne said:
Jesus doesn't hate anything. Im sure Jesus would have a stern talking to with some people (specifically the UN, Feminists, abortionist, and liberals) but Jesus can't hate people!
Thank you for sharing your expert opinion on What Jesus Would Do.
But yes, Wright is a scary man. i won't opine on it because i'm not articulate enough to get my point across without sounding like a racist, if thats even possible and you're a white male.
Oh brother.
goatinamoat
New York, NY
March 2006
MAR 23, 2008 11:57 AM