um, fuck. new hoovervilles.

OK. I admit it, I am lame: What does calling a person "troll" mean? Idiot? Or does it imply that these persons are trying to incite, or...???

I considered being sarcastic, but I'll just ask that you provide evidence for your claim. Do you have any objectively confirmable grounds for claiming that making condition worse for homeless people has led to a lower rate of homelessness?

I have never seen a single professional or scholarly study that supports your claim that the most effective strategy of homelessness reduction is to degrade living conditions for the homeless even further. I also don't think that your "shake people out of it" theory is based on the most reliable sociological and psychological data.

Are you trying to troll or are you really this incredibly dense? I am genuinely curious.

A troll is someone who intentionally posts inflammatory statements to provoke other people on a discussion board. Trolls are generally interested in causing drama for their own entertainment, trying to derail discussions, or attention-whoring. Trolling generally involves off-topic posts, clear logical fallacies, or Ayn Rand.

Trolls can be idiots if they actually believe that they are making on-topic, reasonable claims/posts. Often, however, the assumption is that people are trolling when they post things in which they don't believe (or don't fully believe) for the sake of the goals listed above.

Wow! Thanks for the very complete answer. I hate asking questions that make me feel like and idiot, but I'd rather ask and find out- than actually be an idiot.

Dammit, would you stop agreeing with me? You do realize that is what we are doing. I'm coming at the problem from the angle of people who don't have the time or inclination to be trained, and you're coming at it from the angle of people who taking on the problem head-on. Yes, volunteers need to be trained, but what sort of training does it take to put cans on shelves, fix a meal, wash some clothes, serve a meal, or hand out blankets at a shelter. What sort of training does it take to write a check to a charity? A check which, when cashed, can go towards training volunteers who work on a more personal level with homeless.

I don't know where you are getting your ideas about what I am saying. Everything I've written has been very clear, and is pointed towards the average person who can do as little as spend and extra dollar or two whenever they go grocery shopping to buy a can or two of food for a shelter. Most people don't have your first hand experiance. My ideas are meant to give people like you the money, equipment, and support you need to do your job.

Unfortunatly, your attitude is getting really annoying.

Shut up you godless Commie bastard. Why don't you and your dark master Satan go preach abortion and contraception to children and help take them away from gods light.......

Well, you began by saying that you did not care HOW or WHY a person became homeless ("Don't care"), which is what began this whole discussion in the first place. The last statement above ("Let the charities determine....") is where you begin to diverge from your adamant prior "It doesn't matter" stance.

If I had to pick who was agreeing with whom, I'd have to say that your wording has changed, not mine.

Well, that is unfortunate, Darn.

Technically, we're all godless.

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

Some are just obviously in denial about it.

JunkyardAngel,

I can see where the confusion came from, and I apologize. I was speaking in all cases for myself and other people like me. We are outside the system, and can only do so much with our time and resources. I cannot worry about or care WHY someone is homeless. Someone inside the system has to care about those things. Someone inside the system needs the tools and resources to do their jobs. Someone outside the system can only provide the money, food, clothes, and letters.

Someone outside the system can only try to help those basic needs of food, shelter and safety. Someone inside the system has to take on the idividual problems and causes for homeless. I think this is where our main disagreement lies. I'm outside, you're inside, and we have different priorities. And again, I am only speaking for myself and people like me.

It does matter WHY and HOW someone became homeless, but when I see someone who needs a meal, I'm not going to stop and wonder why.

Huh?

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

You mean like THIS?

Um.

I think we should round the homeless up, and chop off a digit a day. Start with the toes, and move to the fingers next.

That'd sort them out right quick. Two weeks and they'd be back on their feet. (Sans toes of course.)

i think that was one of jesus' sermons, right?

Blessed are the Toe-Loppers.

its good, but i liked "EW, Get Those Lepers The Fuck Away From Me!" better.

"Get Thee In My Behind. Satan" works for me.

UPDATE!

We are in SUCH better shape than those LOSERS in the 30s. For one thing, we park OUR bushvilles in Vacant Lots!

Seriously, that is a kind of neat temporary stopgap on the whole thing. Womens Car Parks! Video

I understand the loss of a house. I see it happen often... But how does one simultaneously lose their job as well? (unless the job loss happened first?)

And apparently, these people weren't told about a common practice called "Short Selling" whereby the lender/bank pays you a stipend to leave (like $1500-3000 cash) and then you quit claim the deed back to them, instead of say, busting holes in every wall and damaging the property prior to their foreclosure.
It sucks, but as least you can leave with something and not be out on the streets.

What i think what is sad, is that those folks don't seem to have any community support and seem to lack friends who care enough to help them out. That's the tragedy, not the loss of a possession.

Generally, that's how it happens. The primary income provider for the household loses his/her job (sometimes as a result of illness which deepens their debt even further and then a lien is placed on their home). When they can't make a mortgage payment because they've lost their job, and the economy sucks so hard that it's difficult to find a new one, then the house gets repossessed.

Why would the bank/lender pay them to leave? It belongs to the bank, the homeowner is just basically just renting-to-own. When a mortgage payment is missed, the bank or lender has every legal right to seize the property, and often has the lending agreement worded so that the evicted homeowner is responsible for all legal and sheriff's department fees for an eviction.

Where are you getting the bit about banging holes in walls, or damaging the property?

Most people, I think, are going to be reticent to believe that they're going to lose a home that they've worked so very hard to purchase in the first place. There's more to a home than where you sleep at night and keep your possessions, and the physical building is an embodiment of those feelings.

Also consider, that these situations sometimes arise so rapidly, that the evicted homeowner has no time to even think about selling before the mortgage is missed.

Theoretically, this is why we're supposed to have a social safety-net to help those living the most marginal existence in our society. Unfortunately Bush and his buddies have dismantled that safety-net and set it back up underneath their rich friends.

I don't see social safety nets as really being intended to support people who buy things they can't afford.

I couldn't finish the video. Poor lady.