NEWS: Democratic Debate Bloodbath

POLITICS: Democratic Debate Bloodbath

“I’ve waited so long for a woman president. Now we have one who has a legitimate chance, and she’s no different than the ones with dicks.”

- Mrs. FearTheReaper

We all knew it was coming. The Democrats would take off the gloves and go with a bare-knuckle brawl. It was actually rather pathetic to watch. There is nothing like watching two people from the same party talking over each other, getting angry and lying out of their assholes.

I didn’t think it was possible to dislike Hillary Clinton more, but she managed to take it up a level. Barack Obama was attacked from two sides and landed some heavy hits back, but overall came out looking like a man who cannot defend himself all that well. John Edwards is John Edwards. He stayed out of the fighting for the most part, but he will still lose.

I used to co-host a radio show on this thing called the radio. The first thing you learn when working on TV or the radio, is not to talk over other people, because you look like an asshole. The three assholes spent an entire evening trying to talk over each other like my alcoholic family on Thanksgiving.

The buildup to this battle has been long and ugly. Hillary and Bill have been hitting Obama with a series of slimy attacks since Iowa. Their bullshit became particularly heinous in Nevada and Bill is losing the respect of some of his base. Obama has also been hit with claims of voter suppression by the press. Tonight, Hillary let loose with some more bullshit and it led to an ugly couple of minutes



The Democratic base has been a buzz about Obama’s Reagan comments. Some are livid that Obama “praised” Reagan; while others don’t know what the fuck the livid people are talking about.



There’s a guy not praising Reagan, but simply speaking facts. As much as Republicans have rewritten the history of Ronald Reagan and turned the bumbling, shitty actor into some sort of demi-God, now Democrats seem to want to rewrite history and dismiss what Reagan did accomplish, which is this: He pulled the entire country together and got them to vote for his retarded ass. He kicked the shit out of Walter Mondale in a landslide and changed the entire political landscape. Those cunty Republicans running around ruining the country now are the direct result of Reagan’s revolution. At no point in that statement does Obama praise Reagan. He only states fact. For Hillary to twist it into praise is exactly why I dislike her. She actually claimed Obama said he "liked" the ideas of the Republicans? That is an outright lie.

Throughout the night, Hillary claimed she was the candidate who was best equipped to beat the Republican nominee in the general election.

That would also be why you have such high disapproval ratings. Hillary also used her bullshit experience line again; apparently still unaware that Obama has more time working as a lawmaker. Hillary has one term as a Senator and some change. Obama has 12 years in the Illinois legislature and 3 years in the Senate.

The lowest point of the debate came when Hillary attempted to paint Obama as being soft on…porn and sexual abuse. Yeah, she did.

Clinton was booed for her low blow/Rovian attack. According the New York Times, 50% of those ‘present’ votes were part of Democratic leadership strategy. And voting present is common in Illinois.

But most importantly, what the fuck is Hillary attempting to say? That Obama is okay with kids looking at porn or buying dildos? Or that he is okay with rape? I understand bringing up the issue of the ‘present’ votes, but connecting sexual abuse and porn is strictly a Republican move. And that is why she was booed.

Hillary will do anything to win. Some Democrats enjoy the idea that she is a “fighting Dem.” But when she is fighting dirty against fellow Democrats, she will only push potential voters away and erode the base. I believe this kind of shit will lead to a loss in the general election, because the press does not treat Democrats the same as Republicans. As much as Hillary gets away with it now, she will be torn asunder if she is the Democratic candidate and lies during a debate.

Obama, on the other hand, looks like a political novice. Since Iowa, he has been on the defensive, which means he is unable to get his message out. Add in the race baiting, the misogyny attacks in the press, Bill’s ugly and untruthful attacks and the Rovian politics and the Democratic base is beginning to fracture. Just read two popular liberal blogs, Daily Kos and TalkLeft. The readers of Kos launch savage attacks against Hillary and the kids at TalkLeft rip into Obama with equal tenacity. Now the two blogs have begun ripping into each other. The wheels are coming off the donkey.

I wish I could argue more. I do think that I am sick watching Barack go from frontrunner, to talk of him "winning the black vote"...!?! Particularly while he still leads in ELECTED DELEGATES 38 to her 36, not mentionning the damn SECRET sleuth SUPERDELEGATES who can just decide whimsically to throw their whole state by their own personal preference.

I think what astounds me most is that I do believe what is on display is the arrogance and entitlement of the BILLARY machine, and it is astounding to me that it really appears to be more about their unchecked narcissistic ambitions than about voters, our country, or the democratic party.

People have been whispering that the CLinton's play to win, but who knew the lengths they would go to? There are multiple dailykos blogs written by precinct caucas captains from Nevada that recount mafia-esque behavior by clinton supporters, including people racing from county to county to caucas twice, asking Obama supporters to go to another room for caucasing saying "this is a Hillary only room" and then slamming the doors in their naive asses once they exited...

WHen people said "the clinton's play to win" I never guessed it would go this far.

ANd it makes me REALLY want to know more about Vince Foster.

By the way, Stephen King endorses Barack Obama. Does anyone care? can he re-write this story? call her CUJO??

Meanwhile, I am driving drunk, looking for this guy, just to take him down by the river, to have a little chat, know what I'm sayin?

CHicago ain't no sissy town...

So, what you're saying is that the republicans are sitting back and giggling to themselves as the democratic party gets eaten alive from the inside out?

Crap.

The GOP is bogged down in their own messy mess but they are:

1) pleased to see the democratic fight
2) dying to take on Hillary, fearing they can't beat Barack Obama.

Ted Kennedy apparently pulled BILLARY aside and said to knock that shit off, but no endorsement.

Then again, that might be a good thing...

That's more-or-less what they've been doing anyway since 1968.

Any Republican who's taking too much schadenfreude at the increasingly bitter Democratic primary race should be listed in the dictionary under "Person living in a glass house with a fondness for hurling rocks".

I am amazed that Clinton (or the Clintons) thinks running a relentlessly negative and record-distorting campaign is going to help her in the long run. Unfortunately it may help her win in the primaries, but the last thing she needs is to alienate more Democratic voters.

Oh, and I do think Obama defending himself pretty well, it's just that he does so in a drawn-out, wonkish way that doesn't lend itself to soundbites. The attack on his "present" votes is, like the whole "Barack <Hearts> Reagan" smear, a mountain of bullshit spun from what can only charitably be described as a molehill, but defending them by discussing legislative strategy in the Illinois Senate isn't enthralling to anyone but die-hard politics geeks.

are only as good as the people you surround yourself with , with hillary this country is going to get the same old hacks, needless to say the gop will have the same old hacks .obama is starting to seem to me like the only guy who could put humpty dumpty back together again. but obama needs to be very careful , i submit the us senate race in tn between bob yes man corker and harold ford jr. i hope he learns the lessons there

just one more point , i think hillary is one of the most entitled persons ive seen in a long time , we the democrats or independents owe her nothing

This is a genuine question, because its something I've heard a lot before, particularly from Obama supporters:

Do you really believe that Obama's sole motivation for running for president (or hell, even PRIMARY motivation) is because he cares about the democratic party, or "voters"?

Personally, I think anyone who chooses that path is ambitious to a terrifying degree. Its pretty much a prerequisite. What define "narcissistic" ambitions as differentiated from altruistic ambitions, or what have you?

I thought the squabbling last night was a disgrace, and I'm saddened because Hillary is making it harder for me to keep up my already fragile support. But frankly, Obama is doing absolutely nothing to close the gap. I think he is charming, funny, and find his voice to be soothing. I don't think Hillary has any of those qualities.

But I think anyone holding him up as the second coming, or even taking his whole "politics of hope" thing seriously is delusional. He is the same as all the rest, and I wish he would stop trying to convince everyone he isn't a politician and just tell me why he is the BEST politician for the job.

I agree. Actually, anyone running for president is a fucking lunatic.

The article was alright until I pictured a donkey with wheels.

Then it was excellent.

I vaguely recall Plato writing that only people smart enough not to want to be in charge, should be in charge. The only reason they do it is because it really is the best choice for everyone.

I doubt America's ever had a president that smart.

I do know only as matter of studied public record that in addition to being a politician whom I have not seen lie and distort the records of others yet, Barack Obama has endured significant pressure on all levels to run this year for a candidate on the democratic ticket, not just bc of his 2004 convention speech, but bc of the deep and abiding dislike many independents, democrats and private wealthy citizens have for the Clintons, and deep disatisfaction they have for all of the others who ran this year.

begged them and yes, I did say them, bc Michelle Obama did not intially want this but this man and others like him sure as hell did.

Not that this is about money, but I do believe the democratic old guard would love a chance to re-invent themselves as forgoing some of corporate buyouts and ending the tired stalemate on capital hill that has people generally hating Nancy Pelosi and such as much as GWB.

PEOPLE by and large want something NEW and change and yes, Obama has a record of 12 years as a person trying to create legislation for change, with many successful bills initiated by him. Senator CLinton is utterly lacking in this claim, yet can plug herself as a lifetime political spouse who cannot wait to step back in to the limelight.

And Bill is ready to sell out his entire legacy, accustomed to lying outright to get whatever he wants.

George Washington, comes to mind good sir. He set the standard to which most others fail miserably.

I'm beginning to wonder who is more likely to be the victim of an assassins bullet. My guess is clinton actually.

If John Edwards of 2008 would've gone against Kerry in 2004, I know Bush wouldn't have gotten that second term. Such a shame that it took a second race for the nomination to really get him fired up. He was really good in the debate, too bad he's four years late now.

Obama/Edwards would be good.

It is, but it's not. I think what FTR was trying to say is that there are guidlines for any debate, and they were not being followed. Everyone know that if you put a bunch of people together and just let em go nuts, questions don't get answered, and people are no more informed than they were three hours ago. Debate has structure for a reason. It makes sure everyone gets a fair chance to say their peice and rebutt the areguements of others.

One o fhte reasons I support Obama is that he is the most honest with himself out of the candidates. He himself has said that you need a certain degree of megalomania to think you're the person to be in charge of the free world.

Meanwhile, Hillary and Edwards think that they're greatest weakness is that they are too damn committed to our plight. Please.

I still can't understand why Edwards has become the "great progressive hope" of the Democratic "netroots" when his actual voting record was more conservative than either of Clinton or Obama.

After reading some of the Edward hagiography at, say, DailyKos, I'm this close to calling Edwards the Democrat's version of Ron Paul.

George Washington could probably be put in that category, except he was right.

*damn you Colinism*

Governor Bush was never elected President through a fair system, so nobody can claim that.

I don't see much point in separating "Republican" from "Democrat" when it comes to dirty debate. To call her tactics "Republican" is pretty extreme that all Republicans practice those tactics. What Hillary does is all Hillary. She will step on and over whoever she so pleases, she will not only carry "the dick", hers will be the biggest in the room. And everything else about her will compensate for it.

wow, damn proud to be an american.... republican and democrats, as time goes by the spelling sometimes is the only difference i see between the 2.... oh and yeah i think shes a cunt also.

Totally! They are basically exactly the same. Except for, like, the totally minor issues of health care, the ideal scope and purpose of taxation, abortion, religion's place in goverment, gun control legislation...

Beautiful.