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sick

sick

Minneapolis, MN
June 2003

DEC 01, 2007 02:39 PM

Zarth said:

Sick said:

Zarth said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

Chainlink said:

MrCrisp said:
plus, english is an extremely complex language and is very hard to learn.

a lot of "real" americans, white or otherwise, don't really even know how to speak, write, or read it.


It is true. English is a very difficult language. One of the most difficult I've heard.
That said, I've seen people go from not one word to fluent enough to read a newspaper and do high school course work in two months.

The thing that bothers me most though is the resentfulness of people that speak another language. If most of these tards spent half the time learning that they do whining they'd have no problem.


People are irrationally passionate about language.

Look even at MrCrisp's statement (you know I love you, man - meet me in the showers after the game). It's ludicrous to say that anyone doesn't know how to speak their own native language. A language, after all, is defined by how people use it, not by dictionaries or high school grammar teachers.

But we give some kind of privileged status to "good" English, (mis)believing that anyone who speaks in colloquialisms or a lower-class dialect must necessarily be dumb or uneducated. Look at the flap over teaching Ebonics (a dialect of English as complex as sophisticated as any other, and a good deal more regular than most) in public schools.

Hell, look at the French. They have a whole government institution dedicated expressly to the "preservation" of their already generally backwards and conservative tongue.

I'd call it silly, myself, if it weren't so obviously universal and thus self-evidently profoundly human.

But it's definitely not rational.



As a writer, I feel obligated to tell you you're completely wrong. tongue


As a linguist (and an asshole!), I can tell you I don't care what you think and don't particularly feel the need to read the rest of what you wrote.



Weren't you a historian before?

Varuka_Salt

Varuka_Salt

I'm lost
October 2006

DEC 01, 2007 02:41 PM

"Gets popcorn out of microwave and pulls up a chair"

Zarth

zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

DEC 01, 2007 02:41 PM

Sick said:
Weren't you a historian before?


I have degrees in both.

In all seriousness, writing uses different brain functions than speaking, and sometimes even otherwise highly intelligent people are terrible with the written word.

And I don't consider socioeconomic and cultural prejudices to be rational. You'll have a hard time convincing me otherwise.

MrCrisp

MrCrisp

I'm lost
August 2004

DEC 01, 2007 02:43 PM

Zarth said:
As a linguist (and an asshole!), I can tell you I don't care what you think and don't particularly feel the need to read the rest of what you wrote.



go back to writing your imaginary language already. whatever

windermere

windermere

Riverside, CA
October 2005

DEC 01, 2007 02:46 PM

MrCrisp said:
go back to writing your imaginary language already. whatever


Hopefully it'll be more popular than Esperanto smile

Varuka_Salt

Varuka_Salt

I'm lost
October 2006

DEC 01, 2007 02:47 PM

MrCrisp said:

Zarth said:
As a linguist (and an asshole!), I can tell you I don't care what you think and don't particularly feel the need to read the rest of what you wrote.



go back to writing your imaginary language already. whatever




wink

Zarth

zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

DEC 01, 2007 02:47 PM

MrCrisp said:

Zarth said:
As a linguist (and an asshole!), I can tell you I don't care what you think and don't particularly feel the need to read the rest of what you wrote.


go back to writing your imaginary language already. whatever


Why don't you make me! bok

meatpieboy

meatpieboy

Korea, D.P.R.
June 2004

DEC 01, 2007 02:51 PM

I believe I have said that devolution does not occur.

This thread will prove me wrong.

Zarth

zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

DEC 01, 2007 02:54 PM

magpieboy said:
I believe I have said that devolution does not occur.

This thread will prove me wrong.


Well, in the strictly scientific sense, devolution doesn't occur, any more than "deceleration" does, inasmuch as both terms assume an inherenlty subjective . . . aww, fuck it.

meatpieboy

meatpieboy

Korea, D.P.R.
June 2004

DEC 01, 2007 03:01 PM

Zarth said:

magpieboy said:
I believe I have said that devolution does not occur.

This thread will prove me wrong.


Well, in the strictly scientific sense, devolution doesn't occur, any more than "deceleration" does, inasmuch as both terms assume an inherenlty subjective . . . aww, fuck it.



I KNEW IT! Etymologically, it can't happen! "De" is not the opposite of "E"!

BOOYAKASHA!!!!


AWWW YEAH BOYEEEEEEEE!!!!

pariah002

pariah002

Yugoslavia
July 2003

DEC 01, 2007 03:15 PM

windermere said:

Chainlink said:
Maybe if you weren't a moron you wouldn't have such a hard time learning another language. People all over the world do it. It's called LEARNING, and it shouldn't seem like such an imposition.


Why in the hell should I learn their language when they're moving to this country? I wouldn't move to another country and expect them to cater to me. If people want to live in the USA, they should learn English. Apparently, that is too much to ask.



Obviously I have joined this thread late and you have so many enlightening things I don't know where to start. Most of them have been address, so lets go with this:
I have lived overseas for about 7 years now, I have been all over the place. About 99% of the Americans who visit and live in different countries EXPECT the locals to speak English. They make no effort to learn the language and get mad when the locals do not speak English.
I have known people who lived in Germany for 9 years and barely speak a lick of German.
So many of us Americans think we are oh so special in the world and that everyone should bow down to us and speak our language because we are the best.
Also English is not the official language of America. It has not passed as a bill or law and has been in front of Congress many times but never passed.

And really, Riverside? That is such a bastion of culture and progress.
Really though, you should just take your white sheets and cut some eye holes in them and you will be all set.

Varuka_Salt

Varuka_Salt

I'm lost
October 2006

DEC 01, 2007 03:22 PM

Yeah, funny how none of us European descendants bothered to learn Cherokee, Sioux, Chippewa, Algonquin or any other native language before we "integrated" with them. Manifest Destiny and all that.

windermere

windermere

Riverside, CA
October 2005

DEC 01, 2007 03:40 PM

varukasalt said:
Yeah, funny how none of us European descendants bothered to learn Cherokee, Sioux, Chippewa, Algonquin or any other native language before we "integrated" with them. Manifest Destiny and all that.


I think the modern term now is "imminent domain" frown

pariah002

pariah002

Yugoslavia
July 2003

DEC 01, 2007 03:45 PM

And see, if we had followed through with our manifest destiny and annexed all of Mexico, poor people like windermere wouldn't have all the problems they are having now.
We could force our culture on more people and rob them of theirs. Thats what makes us special.

Chainlink

Chainlink

Key West, FL
August 2005

DEC 01, 2007 03:53 PM

Did someone say Devolution ?

SPOILERS! (Click to view)
It happens alright !

windermere

windermere

Riverside, CA
October 2005

DEC 01, 2007 04:07 PM

pariah002 said:
We could force our culture on more people and rob them of theirs. Thats what makes us special.



If the culture involves executing a teacher over a teddy bear, then maybe a cultural cull wouldn't be such a bad thing.

SockPuppet

SockPuppet

I'm lost
July 2006

DEC 01, 2007 04:18 PM

Toku666 said:

windermere said:
Call me an Asshole Fuckface, but where I live, we ARE being over-run and out populated by the illegal and legal immigrants. You never see a white, black, or asian lady pushing a stroller down the street with 3 kids in tow, plus another bun in the oven.



Hm. So, would you characterize the use of "over-run" here as:

1) Merely racist
2) Merely paranoid
3) Merely ignorant without it also being 1) and/or 2)
4) All of the above

So what exactly are you worried about? Do you really think you won't have access to housing and resources because of the terrible scourge you are enduring?

Hey, windermere: You're an Asshole Fuckface.



+1

JulesDoll

JulesDoll

Seattle, WA
May 2007

DEC 01, 2007 04:21 PM

What a bunch of fuckfaces...mostly that Janet Folger lady.grrr mad

SockPuppet

SockPuppet

I'm lost
July 2006

DEC 01, 2007 04:30 PM

AndrewPhoto said:
The situation in sudan is a perfect example of blindly following religion...from what I understand, the high priests of islam there can basically say 'oh that's bad' and the people will follow that to the death...it's a horrible situation.



It's much, much more complicated than your comment implies. Everyone involved is Muslim, for a start. There are racial/tribal questions (post-colonial, as usual), there are questions about what's meant by particular words, there are issues about who's prepared to talk to who, there are issues about internal politics between the various rebel movements... It's a horrible situation.

sick

sick

Minneapolis, MN
June 2003

DEC 01, 2007 04:31 PM

Zarth said:

Sick said:
Weren't you a historian before?


I have degrees in both.

In all seriousness, writing uses different brain functions than speaking, and sometimes even otherwise highly intelligent people are terrible with the written word.

And I don't consider socioeconomic and cultural prejudices to be rational. You'll have a hard time convincing me otherwise.



Oh, I didn't write that people who use poor grammar are necessarily unintelligent. I wrote that they're uneducated. Difference.

I'm also not necessarily speaking of uneducated in the sense of having not been to college and the rest. I know plenty of people who attended college who use poor grammar, and who I consider uneducated.

Finally, this is, of course, all separate from any learning disabilities that may prevent learning and use of correct grammar.

sick

sick

Minneapolis, MN
June 2003

DEC 01, 2007 04:37 PM

pariah002 said:
Obviously I have joined this thread late and you have so many enlightening things I don't know where to start. Most of them have been address, so lets go with this:
I have lived overseas for about 7 years now, I have been all over the place. About 99% of the Americans who visit and live in different countries EXPECT the locals to speak English. They make no effort to learn the language and get mad when the locals do not speak English.
I have known people who lived in Germany for 9 years and barely speak a lick of German.
So many of us Americans think we are oh so special in the world and that everyone should bow down to us and speak our language because we are the best.



We can't just call America on this one. Traditionally, the English only spoke English*. We just inherited the practice from them, as did many of their other colonies.

*Apart from the nobility and academics.

windermere

windermere

Riverside, CA
October 2005

DEC 01, 2007 04:37 PM

Zarth said:
In all seriousness, writing uses different brain functions than speaking, and sometimes even otherwise highly intelligent people are terrible with the written word.



Yep. Some people can do differential calculus without a calculator, but spell like a 4th grader. Just depends on how their brains are wired.

justicia

justicia

I'm lost
November 2004

DEC 01, 2007 04:50 PM

varukasalt said:
Yeah, funny how none of us European descendants bothered to learn Cherokee, Sioux, Chippewa, Algonquin or any other native language before we "integrated" with them.


Best comment in thread.



Hey, why can't we FLAG comments in these threads. y'know, comments like


Most places out here won't hire you if you don't speak "their" language.

They're like locusts. They've turned their own country into a shit-hole, so they keep moving North and are doing the same thing here.



Shit like this cluttering up the newswire hinders a decent discussion.

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

DEC 01, 2007 04:59 PM

Sick said:

pariah002 said:
Obviously I have joined this thread late and you have so many enlightening things I don't know where to start. Most of them have been address, so lets go with this:
I have lived overseas for about 7 years now, I have been all over the place. About 99% of the Americans who visit and live in different countries EXPECT the locals to speak English. They make no effort to learn the language and get mad when the locals do not speak English.
I have known people who lived in Germany for 9 years and barely speak a lick of German.
So many of us Americans think we are oh so special in the world and that everyone should bow down to us and speak our language because we are the best.



We can't just call America on this one. Traditionally, the English only spoke English*. We just inherited the practice from them, as did many of their other colonies.

*Apart from the nobility and academics.



Don't know if I quite believe that. From what I've seen, the British school system puts a bit more emphasis on multiple language instruction than the U.S. does.

sick

sick

Minneapolis, MN
June 2003

DEC 01, 2007 05:01 PM

windermere said:

Zarth said:
In all seriousness, writing uses different brain functions than speaking, and sometimes even otherwise highly intelligent people are terrible with the written word.



Yep. Some people can do differential calculus without a calculator, but spell like a 4th grader. Just depends on how their brains are wired.



Differential calculus, nor most higher mathematics, might not be the best example to use, as most calculators can't do it in any meaningful way. Almost everyone who does it does so without a calculator.

I'd use arithmetic as an example instead, since that's more or less what calculators are good for.

I wouldn't extend that into an argument about how many people who are good at mathematics are poor writers, however. First, because arithmetic is hardly mathematics. Second, because the mathematical journals are full of exceptional writing.

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