Wendy said:
When Israel retaliates for the action, kills a couple of the men responsible for planning the attack and civilians are killed in the process, it is not terrorism.

I'm confused by this definition. The term "terrorism" isn't known in my century, so forgive me if I demand precision: Imagine (hypothetically!) that some of the 9/11 victims were responsible for whatever Al-Qaida was retaliating for - would this mean that 9/11 was not an act of terrorism?

I see what she's getting at, actually, though I'm not sure whether I agree with it or not.

Her point is about intentionality. Terrorist groups deliberately target civilians, often women and children, in order to maximize the psychological impact of their violence. They may carry out operations against enemy military and security forces as well, but those may (not always correctly) be assumed to be a mere tactical necessity.

The intention of duly-constituted military or security forces is protect innocent civilians. Their operations against enemy military and insurgent forces are part of their strategy, while the suffering and death of innocent civilians is an unintended consequence.

Now, as I say, I'm not sure how convincing I find that argument. It's compelling enough in an ideal sense, but once one takes it to the facts on the ground, the distinctions can become less obvious. No-one believes they're not fighting evil. And, with the putative exception of Jesus, nobody really loves their enemy, either.

I'm sorry, but I have to argue that. Does Harris' deliberate, sustained use of bombing against the German civilian population (1942-45, for those who need a hint) count as terrorism? It doesn't seem to fit your definitions.

Zarth

Seattle, WA

December 2004

NOV 21, 2007 03:10 PM

SockPuppet said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

"Strategic bombing" was one of the things I was thinking about when I said those definitions were problematic.

Like I say, I can understand her from an ideal point of view, but I'm not sure how well it maps onto reality.

Stiles

New York, NY

November 2002

NOV 21, 2007 06:00 PM

K182 said:
So can ANYONE actually name a predecessor National Security Advisor?

I kind of doubt it, and I travel in some pretty savvy circles.

You might want to widen your circle a smidge.

Off the top of my head, Brent Scowcroft comes to mind. He was Kissinger's boy, and advisor to Gerald Ford and G.H.W. Shrub later on.

While he's far from my favorite person, he was against the war on Iraq - very meaningful, considering his history with Nixon, Kissinger, Ford and Bush 1.

Zarth

Seattle, WA

December 2004

NOV 21, 2007 06:09 PM

Stiles said:

K182 said:
So can ANYONE actually name a predecessor National Security Advisor?

I kind of doubt it, and I travel in some pretty savvy circles.

And who can forget Zbigniew Brzezinski?

Stiles

New York, NY

November 2002

NOV 21, 2007 06:22 PM

Zarth said:

And who can forget Zbigniew Brzezinski?

Jesus, tell me you spelled that correctly without looking it up.

Also, he was entertaining on the Daily Show.

liljohn

USA

November 2006

NOV 21, 2007 06:29 PM

Are you sure she was whispering in his ear about Shiites? Or was it about the oral office, er I mean the oval office.

IDGAS

Jackson Heights, NY

March 2004

NOV 21, 2007 06:51 PM

K182 said:
So can ANYONE actually name a predecessor National Security Advisor ...
I kind of doubt it, and I travel in some pretty savvy circles.

Maybe because I am older or I was a National Security geek
McGeorge Bundy
Henry Kissinger (became Sec of St)
Zbigniew Brzezinski (we gave each other the finger outside the F-street club)
Bud McFarlane
John Poindexter
Colin Powell (became Sec of St)
Brent Scowcroft (forgot about his first time for Ford)
Anthony Lake
Sandy Berger
lecondel Rice (became Sec of St)

And errors were adding Al Haig to the list and forgetting Rostow (he was in the first fing post smacks head hard twice)

Zarth

Seattle, WA

December 2004

NOV 21, 2007 07:08 PM

Stiles said:

Zarth said:

And who can forget Zbigniew Brzezinski?

Jesus, tell me you spelled that correctly without looking it up.

Also, he was entertaining on the Daily Show.

Yeah, I did. I'm a Slav and a linguist, though, so the consonant clusters don't throw me the way they might most other native English-speakers.