NEWS: The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement Has Some Good Points

I guess that depends on how much in taxes you pay... if I make more money than the single person, and thus pay more taxes, that kind of falls apart, doesn't it?

I absolutely agree with you and wasn't trying to say that childfree people are dicks, just that a lot of them seem really hostile to anyone who hasn't somehow proved some sort of bullshit childfree cred or something. I know that a lot of it is because some people treat them like dirt, and I definitely don't like people who insult others for being childfree any more than I like aggressive CF-ers. I think the problem is that reproduction and family is something so close to everyone's hearts, whether they are omgsevenkidsnowpls breeders or childfree or anything in between. From either side, an attack on the other seems so personal it's hard not to react aggressively and I doubt that's something that's going to see a massive value shift any time in the near future. D:

I'm not sure what the general sense you're talking about is, here? I certainly do believe in questioning values where they may cause harm to others and the greater good must override rights to religious freedom, but since we seem to agree that people having babies isn't hurting me or mine or you or yours, I think the general sense of my statement would be that I don't believe in attacking others' beliefs where they don't generally harm others.

As a species we have superseded our natural biological, instinctual, and environmental forms of population control, yet we have not replaced them with any sort of conscious self restraint. I think this represents a serious problem. We cannot support or current population yet we keep increasing our population. We cannot care for the children we currently have and yet we continue to have more children. At least VHEMT advocates taking some sort of responsibility for an untenable situation, because at the moment we are headed towards involuntary human extinction.

I think you've got something there. It's really hard for people to understand how a person can feel or think so differently about something they feel strongly about. Heck, that pretty much covers religion and politics, too. I said maybe we (by which I mean humans in general) should all try to treat each other with some kindness and respect, but that doesn't mean I expect it will actually happen.

Very yes. Voluntary population limitation through human effort vs. involuntary extinction as a result of disease or famine is the key, and the very point that VHEMT is trying to make. VHEMT is not just about cleaning up the earth of our species so that the animals can run wild and free without us, although there's some of that, too. No one wants to see their children starve to death or die slowly of cholera or the next plague. It's much kinder to prevent excess births rather than leave it to nature to thin the population of humans. So even if people don't give a crap about the planet, they should at least care about the future condition of the human species.

Nevermind...

I knew a person who never wanted kids as well...they were steadfast on this issue...then one day they met them...they knew straight away this person was for them...they knew they wanted this person round all the time...in the period of less than 6 months their sentiment on children had gone 180...you have underestimated the power of feelings and love.

also two words "plastic extrusion." in 40 years the male sperm rate will be so low, there will be virtually no birth rate anyway.

Judging from the pronouns you're using there, it sounds like you're talking about a lot of people. That was an awkward way to say what you were trying to get across.

Wow, a particular individual changed their mind about an issue as certain aspects of their life changed?! No way! Obviously this means no one can possibly be genuine in their resolve not to have children and you should go around telling them that. I'm sure everyone really appreciates your valuable contribution to the discussion. >___>

I had a vasectomy. My wife helped me make the decision, but it didn't take very long to decide. We have never had children and eventually realized we never wanted children. However it took me several long consultations (read arguments) with the urologist to get that fucker to agree to give me the operation. He was so disturbed that I wanted an irreversible vasectomy without having had kids already that he literally begged me to reconsider. Ultimately I had to hint at some nebulous deep seated issues to get him to agree. Still to this day some people get very upset with us when they find out we just don't want kids. They look at it as some sort of condemnation of their own choice to have kids. It's not that we don't like kids. We take care of my brothers three kids all the time. A whole bevy of other older nieces and nephews come and stay with us in the summer. We've become professional aunts and uncles and we love it. We could never be that much a part of the kids in our family's lives if we had kids of our own to consider. My own grandmother won't speak to me because I'm not giving her more great grandkids.

I think Zarth has underestimated the power of feelings and love.

How can you estimate the value of something you don't own?

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

jk, You know I love you Zarthustra.

I like their bumper sticker:

"COPULATE DONT POPULATE"

its an easy enough principle for me to stand by, and its been working for years.

Indeed. I personally can't envision a future in which I'd want kids around on a daily basis, but if ever I did I would much prefer to adopt.

Very true--I forget that sometimes, myself. In the unlikely event that I changed my mind about my childfreedom, I would adopt a child, preferably an older kid in foster care. I've also thought it would be good to be a mentor/friend/unofficial family to a young person who has "aged out" of the system, even if I don't adopt. There are lots of ways to care for children without making them yourself.

Just out of curiousity, has it gotten any easier to adopt? I know it used to be quite difficult, and next to impossible if one was in an "unusual" home situation (ie. in a same-sex relationship, or unmarried). Also, is it still quite expensive? I remember my uncle saying it had cost him about $20,000 (of course, that was quite a while ago).

That's cool... sometimes it seems like everyone wants kids but me. I'm just a party animal.

I think adoption can still be pretty expensive, but adopting children from foster care is much less so. Many adoption agencies don't charge fees to adopt a foster care child, and it's free aside from some paperwork fees like background checks, copies of vital records, and some court costs. I'd guess adopting a foster child would be comparable in cost to paying hospital bills for giving birth to one's biological kid. Unfortunately lots of kids in foster care end up at the age of majority without legal ties to a family, and they're expected to be completely self-sufficient, many times with no where to go for holidays or in other times of need.

I think it's also still difficult for same-sex couples and singles to adopt, but in my opinion it's still worth the effort if one finds it important to them

Paying hospital bills... wha? What are those?