InnocentSid said:
Like many Jews around the world, I am tired of the fact that you cannot question anything that the government of Israel does without being branded an anti-semite or a nazi. It is utterly ridiculous! The government of Israel does not speak for all Jews and their policies are not inherently Jewish. It is a bit like saying that all those that oppose the American government policies are anti-Christian. Bishop Desmond Tutu is not an anti-semite because he has questioned the government of Israel's record on human rights.
I agree all of this except:
Another reason, besides the cold, to stay away from Minnesota.
As it is, I think there are currently at least ten reasons NOT to avoid MN... among other reasons.
the anti/zionist anti/semitist blur is manipulated by both sides of the argument. Zionist call anti-zionists anti-semites and nazis to garner sympathy, and anti-semites can hide under an anti Isreal stance to validate hatred. I've witnessed both.
I also noticed that the Jews in question were only upset about the Nazi reference and not the aparthied reference, which I think speaks volumes on the nature of the emotional condition.
Finally I'd like to make an impassioned plea for everyone to stop comparing their atrocities to hitler and nazi germany. It has become an empty thoughtless statement giving no power to an argument due to overuse.
aaronthere said:
the anti/zionist anti/semitist blur is manipulated by both sides of the argument. Zionist call anti-zionists anti-semites and nazis to garner sympathy, and anti-semites can hide under an anti Isreal stance to validate hatred. I've witnessed both.
SurlyZombie said:
Fucking Jewish Lobby. I am ashamed to be Jewish if these are the people representing me.
Fuck them.
-D
Except it wasn't the "Jewish Lobby" is was one organization called Jewish Community Relations Council of Minnesota and the Dakotas. Last time I checked there weren't a whole lot of Jews in Minnesota and apparently there are so few that they don't even get their own organization, they have to share it with North and South Dakota.
This entire thing is being blown out of proportion. There were a handful of Jews and for some reason the university listened to them. I personally would have rather they made Tutu debate someone about his comparison of Israel to South African Apartheid.
Except that was an op-ed written in 2003. If you have any statements from ZOA about this specific event or them contacting the University I am all ears. Otherwise I stand by my statement that
the only group, which I have read, that actually did anything to stop this event was the Jewish Community Relations Council of Minnesota and the Dakotas.
Keep talkin...You're so amusing when you're grasping at straws.
SurlyZombie said:
Fucking Jewish Lobby. I am ashamed to be Jewish if these are the people representing me.
Fuck them.
-D
Except it wasn't the "Jewish Lobby" is was one organization called Jewish Community Relations Council of Minnesota and the Dakotas. Last time I checked there weren't a whole lot of Jews in Minnesota and apparently there are so few that they don't even get their own organization, they have to share it with North and South Dakota.
This entire thing is being blown out of proportion. There were a handful of Jews and for some reason the university listened to them. I personally would have rather they made Tutu debate someone about his comparison of Israel to South African Apartheid.
Except that was an op-ed written in 2003. If you have any statements from ZOA about this specific event or them contacting the University I am all ears. Otherwise I stand by my statement that
the only group, which I have read, that actually did anything to stop this event was the Jewish Community Relations Council of Minnesota and the Dakotas.
Keep talkin...You're so amusing when you're grasping at straws.
If I am grasping at straws then it shouldn't be hard for you to prove me wrong. You can blame ZOA for general their stance of Tutu but you can't blame them for what they didn't do which was get Tutu's invitation revoked in this specific case. The only group who did that was the Jewish Community Relations Council of Minnesota and the Dakotas.
Despite my difficulty quoting in Firefox, my two cents:
I think it's worth noting that PeaceJam is not an event for university students, it's for high schoolers. I'm gonna give 'em a little leeway on the dorky name.
Also worth noting is that it's not directly a University of St. Thomas event; they were simply to host it on their campus on behalf of another organization. When the University of St. Thomas withdrew their invitation to host the event, it was moved (with Tutu's invitation to speak intact) to a public university in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area.
Let's not blame this on the Jewish lobby when a Catholic institution and its President (Father Dennis Dease) had every opportunity to go ahead with hosting the event regardless of the opinion of one small Jewish group. As a Minnesotan, I'm especially appalled that Dease ignored his own school's statement on its commitment to diversity, which reads in part "As a Catholic university and the largest private institution of higher learning in Minnesota, St. Thomas has both an extraordinary opportunity and a special responsibility to create and maintain a climate that affirms diversity of persons as well as diversity of views."
FearTheReaper said:
Ah, the old go to. "Conspiracy."
Sorry, I was going with "obvious."
This has been fun, but arguing with religious nutters is retarded. Good luck
Funny because i'm an Atheist.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. What a fucking joke you are.
You know FTR, I try to be respectful but you make that so hard. I still would like to see your stand up act if you ever bother to tell anyone who you really are.
SurlyZombie said:
Fucking Jewish Lobby. I am ashamed to be Jewish if these are the people representing me.
Fuck them.
-D
Except it wasn't the "Jewish Lobby" is was one organization called Jewish Community Relations Council of Minnesota and the Dakotas. Last time I checked there weren't a whole lot of Jews in Minnesota and apparently there are so few that they don't even get their own organization, they have to share it with North and South Dakota.
This entire thing is being blown out of proportion. There were a handful of Jews and for some reason the university listened to them. I personally would have rather they made Tutu debate someone about his comparison of Israel to South African Apartheid.
Except that was an op-ed written in 2003. If you have any statements from ZOA about this specific event or them contacting the University I am all ears. Otherwise I stand by my statement that
the only group, which I have read, that actually did anything to stop this event was the Jewish Community Relations Council of Minnesota and the Dakotas.
Keep talkin...You're so amusing when you're grasping at straws.
[/spoiler]
We're talking about a four year old op-ed piece from a group with about as much significance in the life of the typical American Jew as the Daughters of the American Revolution has in the life of the typical American. That and a statement from a Jewish group that's probably not large enough to form a minyan. The idea that this is somehow the 'Jewish Lobby' at work is patently ridiculous.
fountainofdreams
Batavia, IL
January 2005
OCT 05, 2007 12:53 PM