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SuperCrunch

SuperCrunch

Birmingham, AL
January 2007

AUG 23, 2007 05:06 PM

sickboyedd said:
This kind of thing I think is always best discussed in a group of friends with something being passed around rather than in a scientific seminar biggrin



Agreed.

joker_

joker_

Minneapolis, MN
October 2005

AUG 23, 2007 05:16 PM

Since this is my simulation, I have to congratulate all of you artificial shadow players for making it so interesting to me.

Gringo

Gringo

Spokane, WA
May 2006

AUG 23, 2007 05:20 PM

SuperCrunch said:

sickboyedd said:
This kind of thing I think is always best discussed in a group of friends with something being passed around rather than in a scientific seminar biggrin


Agreed.


Yeah, as I was reading this article, I had a flashback of a scene from Animal House.

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

AUG 23, 2007 05:26 PM

and what it basically breaks down to is that at least one of the following must theoretically be true:

a.) Mankind will never reach a state of advanced technological wizardry required for artificial-intelligence civilization simulations en masse.
b.) Mankind will reach such a state, but will have evolved to a point where they have better things to do than run civilization sims.
c.) Mankind will and has already reached such a state, and the reality we exist in now is that of a computer-generated simulation.


d.) Mankind will reach a state of advanced technological wizardry required for artificial-intelligence civilization simulations en masse, but they will only exist in the future in line with their own time and their inhabitants will be no more sentient than our Sims.

joker_

joker_

Minneapolis, MN
October 2005

AUG 23, 2007 05:32 PM

What if the ai sims, developed ai sims to entertain themselves?

Clones of clones? That would explain our seemingly limitless capacity for stupidity.

sick

sick

Minneapolis, MN
June 2003

AUG 23, 2007 05:58 PM

DeadRat said:
Isn't this theory just a computer-firendly version of Descartes saying that his body may not be real (brain in a jar being poked by "scientist") but his thoughs are, so by being able to think he's able to exist?

But if this guy is right, that would finally explain why my master's thesis director always seemed like a badly coded non playing character from a cheap WoW clone.



Pretty much the brain in a vat argument, with a slight difference: no actual brain. The typical brain in vat argument results in a scenario such as that in The Matrix. This argument results in more of a The Thirteenth Floor kind of thing.

AceT

AceT

Portland, OR
April 2004

AUG 23, 2007 06:03 PM

_DictionaryGirl_ said:
You could say that's a little narcissistic of me; you could also argue, however, the equally valid possibility that scientists are little more than mini-bosses in the Shigeru Miyamoto-esque eight-bit side scroller that is my life.


Greatest sentence since Wil's Voltron metaphor.

punk

punk

Phoenix, AZ
January 2004

AUG 23, 2007 08:47 PM

Dr. Bostrom clearly loved the ending of Men in Black.

WADO

WADO

Brooklyn, NY
March 2006

AUG 23, 2007 09:20 PM

Well, when you go around universes and time-streams the only thing you can really expect is that a lot of people will be angry, and consider the whole thing a bad move.

FireBrand

FireBrand

South River, NJ
December 2004

AUG 23, 2007 10:12 PM

the thing about this that weirds me out is the concept of back story, and how it would effect us all, in most games you don't experience every second of a persons life, so when did this sim start 2000 years ago or an hour ago and any recollection before that is just scripted back story, or just randomly created and assigned. so are all of my life experiences just some roll of the dice like a D&D character getting his stats made and class chosen... is a low roll why my charisma is so lackluster, were to many skill points assigned to... screw it if life isn't real does any one know where I can get a hold of any Acid?

asbestosman

asbestosman

Australia
October 2005

AUG 23, 2007 10:35 PM

apesamongus said:
Ummm. how does he exclude option "D. Mankind will reach the stage, but has not yet"? Sounds like he confused computer sym with time travel.



Because the odds of that are infintesimal compared to the other options. If you suppose that mankind will reach that stage then suddenly the ratio of real universes to simulated ones becomes 1:millions/billions


ortho7117 and others said:
A lot like the ol' "brain in a vat" thought experiment. I think it's all generally called solipsism.



It seems to me that it's somewhat similar to the ol' BiaV, but isn't really solipsic. In fact, the idea behind it presumes not just that there's a reality outside our own experience, but an even greater reality outside of that.
But maybe I just don't understand solipsism.
However, I do understand that this comic is hilarious.


I've heard about this quite a bit recently, and I wonder why. I heard of this "simulation hypothosis" in this exact form years ago. Could be that it's only recently that the good Dr has made it an equation.
It's always made me think of Intelligent Design. Who's to say we're not in a simulation that started, say, 6000 years ago whatever

joker_

joker_

Minneapolis, MN
October 2005

AUG 23, 2007 10:41 PM

That fucking Doctor stole my idea. I was talking about this during a trip in the early 90s.

I'm not entirely sure why I just typed that?

biggrin

scylis

scylis

USA
November 2004

AUG 23, 2007 10:54 PM

ElPres said:
Who knows the cheat codes?



George W. Bush.

there just doesn't happen to be a code to deal with public image, it seems.

scylis

scylis

USA
November 2004

AUG 23, 2007 10:55 PM

asbestosman said:
I've heard about this quite a bit recently, and I wonder why. I heard of this "simulation hypothosis" in this exact form years ago. Could be that it's only recently that the good Dr has made it an equation.
It's always made me think of Intelligent Design. Who's to say we're not in a simulation that started, say, 6000 years ago whatever



Dinosaur bones were put in the ground by the developers to trick you into not believing!!!

Evilgasm

Evilgasm

Netherlands
April 2007

AUG 24, 2007 03:11 AM

FireBrand said:
so are all of my life experiences just some roll of the dice like a D&D character getting his stats made and class chosen... is a low roll why my charisma is so lackluster?





jermhawk

jermhawk

Tidioute, PA
December 2004

AUG 24, 2007 05:20 AM

If this is true, then why do i piss more when i drink beer than with anything else in the same amount?

VinnyVidiVici

VinnyVidiVici

Orange Park, FL
February 2006

AUG 24, 2007 05:46 AM

The NYTimes link doesn't seem to work for me. frown

apesamongus

apesamongus

Atlanta, GA
July 2002

AUG 24, 2007 09:24 AM

asbestosman said:

apesamongus said:
Ummm. how does he exclude option "D. Mankind will reach the stage, but has not yet"? Sounds like he confused computer sym with time travel.



Because the odds of that are infintesimal compared to the other options. If you suppose that mankind will reach that stage then suddenly the ratio of real universes to simulated ones becomes 1:millions/billions


Shouldn't a scientist not abuse statistics like that?

wtk10025

wtk10025

New York, NY
November 2006

AUG 24, 2007 10:02 AM

The unstated underlying premise in this somewhat bland thought experiment is that there is someone or something actively operating, i.e. in charge of, the universe, an unmoved mover of some sort Hardly a new concept. Dressing that archaic construction up with an equation purporting to posit the likelihood of a future historical state doesn't render that underlying premise any more plausible--or useful.

fountainofdreams

fountainofdreams

Batavia, IL
January 2005

AUG 24, 2007 10:21 AM

So how would you explain myself sitting and losing myself in WoW, which could conceivably be its own little universe of people? Infinite recursion?

That's one geeky posthuman.

Tiger_Fodder

Tiger_Fodder

Braintree, MA
June 2007

AUG 24, 2007 11:43 AM

DeadRat said:
Isn't this theory just a computer-firendly version of Descartes saying that his body may not be real (brain in a jar being poked by "scientist") but his thoughs are, so by being able to think he's able to exist?

But if this guy is right, that would finally explain why my master's thesis director always seemed like a badly coded non playing character from a cheap WoW clone.



+1....I think....maybe the person playing my character is just trying to throw everyone off his scent?

swingkitten

swingkitten

Portland, OR
OLD SKOOL

AUG 24, 2007 12:40 PM

fountainofdreams said:
So how would you explain myself sitting and losing myself in WoW, which could conceivably be its own little universe of people? Infinite recursion?

That's one geeky posthuman.



Completely plausible, considering we have our sims check their email and play stupid games on their sim-computers.

fountainofdreams

fountainofdreams

Batavia, IL
January 2005

AUG 24, 2007 01:01 PM

swingkitten said:

fountainofdreams said:
So how would you explain myself sitting and losing myself in WoW, which could conceivably be its own little universe of people? Infinite recursion?

That's one geeky posthuman.



Completely plausible, considering we have our sims check their email and play stupid games on their sim-computers.



I wish my WoW characters could check their email or play their own MMO games. That would be AWESOME.

Louis_XIV

Louis_XIV

France
August 2007

AUG 26, 2007 02:32 PM

A new and interesting approach to the old question "What is ?"

I'm not familiar with your modern computer science, but the idea that our so-called "reality" is nothing but an illusion is anything but new. Shakespeare wrote "We are such stuff as dreams are made on, and our little life is rounded with a sleep."

The Bard was not the only one who had this idea. As young man I studied the oeuvre of Descartes (although I never met him, he died when I was 11), who invented the concept of the "Evil demon":

Descartes wrote:
I shall suppose, therefore, that there is, not a true God, who is the sovereign source of truth, but some evil demon, no less cunning and deceiving than powerful, who has used all his artifice to deceive me. I will suppose that the external things that we see, are only illusions and deceptions which he uses to take me in. I will consider myself as having no hands, eyes, flesh, blood or senses, but as believing wrongly that I have all these things.



What's new in Bostrom's hypothesis is the idea that Descartes' evil demon is in fact a geek demon and that he uses something similar to 21th century thinking machines to create the illusion. (Which might explain why the fiscal system of my kingdom, despite the efforts of Jean-Baptiste Colbert to fix it, is still so buggy...)



P.S.: After informing myself on your century's computer games and simulations, there is one question that puzzles me: If the world as we know it is a simulation - is it a release or a beta test ?

Twelve

Twelve

Bay City, MI
April 2007

AUG 26, 2007 09:22 PM

I wish whoever was running my faction was better at it, because they suck.


a.) Mankind will never reach a state of advanced technological wizardry required for artificial-intelligence civilization simulations en masse.

b.) Mankind will reach such a state, but will have evolved to a point where they have better things to do than run civilization sims.

c.) Mankind will and has already reached such a state, and the reality we exist in now is that of a computer-generated simulation.



If we either reach this state and already have better things to do, then why should anyone else reach that state and not have anything better to do?

Also, if posthumanism is the same as transhumanism, it's fucking retarded.

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