Boards > Current Events > NEWS: Its Official: Democrats Do Not Have Spinal Columns

wereduck

I'm lost

July 2007

AUG 07, 2007 03:16 AM

Krass_of_nod said:

we3_pirate said:

Krass_of_nod said:

shapeshifter23 said:

There's something evidently very unique and, in my opinion, very sinister about the US that prevents these impulses that thrive in other similar nations. What is it?

This is a bit of a sidenote, but anyone with any insight on this, please run it by me. Hopefully I haven't heard your particular take on it yet and it'll all of the sudden make perfect and rational sense to me.

That's a very interesting question, which I've addressed before... some of the answers to that take us down the rabbit hole so to speak, but author Barbara Marciniak has written perceptively about this circumstance. It is indeed 'very sinister'...

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

BINGO!

Amen man amen

this is so right on the money I could kiss you....erm not that i will. You get my point, and people like patricky and kungfoo WHO ARE TRAPPED IN THIS VERY THING will constantly outcry against and belittle those those who know the truth and accept it!

While I agree with your points, your overall message has a certain air of...well, 'falseness' is too strong a word, but I guess it works.

And that quote from Ms. Marciniak is, again pretty on the money at points, but overall has this 'falseness' to it.

You say that 'the system' is this undying entity of media, money, and lies that we cannot get out of, but let's look at history:
-the printing press, the first form of modern media, made possible, for the first time ever, for millions to read books, such as the Bible. Given this newfound ability, people were able to understand for themselves what was being taught to them, and then see the contradictions in the Church. This allowed for people to question, dissent, rebel, and break away. The printing press' invention led to scientists being able to publish their material, and distribute it far and wide, leading to even further challenges to various authorities. Now, the Catholic Church is only a shadow of its former self.
-cameras, and the later videocamera, allowed people to see events objectively. Any image that made it to the public could influence the right person in the right way, such as the gruesome images of the Vietnam War, which inspired the largest youth movement in history.
-the computer, and the Internet, allowing for personal communication on an previously unheard-of scale, and also allowing information to get around that would otherwise have never been seen or heard. Police brutality caught on camera phones and posted on YouTube, leading to public outcry.

Sure, 'the system' bounces back from these defeats, and eventually even uses the weapons to its advantage. But, every time, it loses something. Its strength is gone. It used to be that nothing from a government was challenged, now everything from a government can (and often is) challenged in some ways.

Krass, you kind of fall into the trap of cynicism, railing about a system from inside it, declaring everything to be a fruitless endeavor, because all you see are the people in charge. You don't look back and see that they are dying out, and all it takes is for people to give a flying crap, regardless of how little money they have, or how far 'down the rabbit hole' they are.

Of course, what do I know? I'm stuck here, like the rest of us.

falseness....do I have to get out the beat down stick of references to show that i am not telling a "crock of shit"
nothing I said is lies or false, not any of it, it is all researchable fact. Ithe only thing that is even debatable about what I put here is my own opinion....

I never said "do nothing its the right thing to do because who cares anyway"....

to the contrary I think doing something would be great, but as soon as you do, your head is gonna roll, just like all the people before you. You honestly think they will not kill you or lock you away and parade you through the media as a terrorist or a sympathizer for their enemy. think again

the people may be getting older, but the money isn't, and it still is in force, so until someone does something about the money, nothing will change.
and aside from that, I would like you tell that to my friends who are dealing with the fact they have broken families now.

99% of the american money is controlled by 15 corporations, the rest of us have the the other 1%...is that a lie NO its also RESEARCHABLE fact.

those people of the armed forces the live and dead ones did not sign on to fight for corporate lies and political bullshit. They deserve a lot better than what they got.

am i being cynical, maybe just a little but I think I am also being a bit realistic...well aside from my 4 step plan, thats just a fantasy.....

point is the government controls you whether you like it or not, and if you really want to go looking for falseness, look no further than the annals of American history, this country was bought and paid for a long time ago, and don't think anything has changed now,

when the entire regime is taken apart and replaced with people who actually have a desire to see good things come about without capitalistic gains in mind, only then will things be better.

My apologies, I was not intending to imply that you were lying. I meant that the idea that "nothing we did matters", which goes back to your first post on this thread, has an air of falseness. I even said that agree with you on your points, such as the many examples of lies and deceit throughout history.

wereduck

I'm lost

July 2007

AUG 07, 2007 03:27 AM

shapeshifter23 said:
we3 pirate...

Your observations about the liberating potential of technology are well taken... and I do think Marciniak goes a bit off the deep end in her denunciation of electronic technology... or, she fails to recognize the distinction between mainstream corporate-controlled media and independent outlets for dissenting expression. Every technological advance in communication has the potential for advancing human consciousness as well as for enslaving it. As long as the ruling elite can keep the majority sheepmass of the populace cowed and conditioned to bow down to the status quo, and the minority who seek to reveal and express truth are kept disunited and disadvantaged (in the system where those who control the most money control the society at large), these technologies are permitted and encouraged even, insofar as they promote the idea that we live in a free society where we are free to express dissent.

It is one thing to 'challenge' our government with words and images in a free media, and it is quite another to challenge the elite in a concerted demonstration of effective action (I'm thinking here of something on the lines of a nationwide general strike or sustained economic boycott of consumer goods and services, as opposed to the commonly accepted forms of dissent, e.g. blogging, electoral politics, peace marches and those things that have lately proved to be relatively ineffectual)...

Good point. I do agree about the pointlessness of blogging, peace marches, electoral politics, etc. There was a time when the peace march meant something, but it has lost its teeth. Much like the printing press no longer has the meaning it used to.

The only reason the Internet hasn't realized its potential for changing the world is because it's young. People are still trying to figure this one out, but it's dangerous enough that laws are passed (both in this country and elsewhere) that are designed to limit it (the whole "Napster" thing, for starters.). Someone smarter than any of us will figure it out eventually.

In the meantime, a boycott does sound tempting...

NickFaust

USA

April 2004

AUG 07, 2007 05:23 AM

we3_pirate said:
falseness....do I have to get out the beat down stick of references to show that i am not telling a "crock of shit"

Yes.

nothing I said is lies or false, not any of it, it is all researchable fact.

So show us.

Ithe only thing that is even debatable about what I put here is my own opinion....

I never said "do nothing its the right thing to do because who cares anyway"....

to the contrary I think doing something would be great, but as soon as you do, your head is gonna roll, just like all the people before you. You honestly think they will not kill you or lock you away and parade you through the media as a terrorist or a sympathizer for their enemy. think again

This is just nonsense. I stood for public office and, in that position I sponsored a resolution that made my town one of the first few to publicly disavow the Patriot Act. Did it make a difference to the Gov't ? No. Did it educate the people of my town? Yes. As a result of that activity I was invited to speak on panels with the local FBI and other law enforcement speaking against the Patriot Act. In so doing I reached and educated thousands of people.

My head remains firmly attached to my shoulders. There is much that you can do. Much that you should do. This passive paranoia based thinking of yours is part of the problem. It has nothing to do with the solution.

the people may be getting older, but the money isn't, and it still is in force, so until someone does something about the money, nothing will change.
and aside from that, I would like you tell that to my friends who are dealing with the fact they have broken families now.

99% of the american money is controlled by 15 corporations, the rest of us have the the other 1%...is that a lie NO its also RESEARCHABLE fact.

those people of the armed forces the live and dead ones did not sign on to fight for corporate lies and political bullshit. They deserve a lot better than what they got.

am i being cynical, maybe just a little but I think I am also being a bit realistic...well aside from my 4 step plan, thats just a fantasy.....

point is the government controls you whether you like it or not, and if you really want to go looking for falseness, look no further than the annals of American history, this country was bought and paid for a long time ago, and don't think anything has changed now,

when the entire regime is taken apart and replaced with people who actually have a desire to see good things come about without capitalistic gains in mind, only then will things be better.

Can I suggest that you have something to replace the "entire regime" with before you take it apart.

You are being silly. You need to educate yourself about the ways in which you can make a difference, not the ways you can't.

_kungfoo_

Los Angeles, CA

April 2005

AUG 07, 2007 07:56 AM

alpha22 said:
What is offensive about stating my opinion about the IVAW (IRAQ VETERANS AGAINST THE WAR) and its members? Not one of them were drafted they chose to serve!

I joined in 1999 as a naive kid, long before the "war" on terror and an illegal invasion of Iraq. Something about being used to fight an illegal war for imperial expeditions in the middle east has this tendency to piss people off.

Since you're so hardcore though, you could re-enlist? I know somebody's spot you could take in Baghdad.

Chainlink

Key West, FL

August 2005

AUG 07, 2007 08:21 AM

Krass_of_nod said:

chainlink said:

Krass_of_nod said:thank you for clarifying my lack of proper facts but if you would like to reference anything else I said go ahead you will find its all accurate...

And thank you for helping me establish a point about who really is controlling you

Trust me, you've not established much of anything. You most certainly, are not controlling me. You blew a bunch of crap out of your ass. You've been called on it. A few times. I could continue to point out more bullshit but I'm afraid I'll pull a muscle if I laugh any harder tonight. Try using some sources next time if you're going to reference a whole diatribe of fun *facts*.

1: where did I say that I control anyone? where? this was intended to mean, that the government controls you. I don't really give a damn if you feel otherwise. I never said I control anyone, ever.

You are pissed, and thats fine which is why i am not being rude, I did it on purpose and yes i have to deal with the fallout for that. You assumed I meant that I control you, and you assumed completely wrong.

2: yes I did establish many points none of which were even close to being refuted, when you are not angry at me, try reading it again with a neutral point of view.

if you really want references open up a college text book on American history that was published out of the country, and get to reading. our texts are edited, much of the crap we did was left out so people like you would not know about it.

3 nothing else aside from the intentionally false info I baited you with, is false, everything else i said is true. Look it all up.

4: some of my points were agreed upon by others in this forum, so please read what everyone else said to

you have anything to say about that?

Yes

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

alpha22

Scottsdale, AZ

May 2005

AUG 07, 2007 09:54 AM

KUNGFOO said:

alpha22 said:
What is offensive about stating my opinion about the IVAW (IRAQ VETERANS AGAINST THE WAR) and its members? Not one of them were drafted they chose to serve!

I joined in 1999 as a naive kid, long before the "war" on terror and an illegal invasion of Iraq. Something about being used to fight an illegal war for imperial expeditions in the middle east has this tendency to piss people off.

Since you're so hardcore though, you could re-enlist? I know somebody's spot you could take in Baghdad.

Desert storm was a cease fire enforced by no-fly zones since 1991.

What proof do you have that a congressional appoved action is illegal.

Quirky

Birmingham, AL

October 2005

AUG 07, 2007 09:57 AM

alpha22 said:

KUNGFOO said:

alpha22 said:
What is offensive about stating my opinion about the IVAW (IRAQ VETERANS AGAINST THE WAR) and its members? Not one of them were drafted they chose to serve!

I joined in 1999 as a naive kid, long before the "war" on terror and an illegal invasion of Iraq. Something about being used to fight an illegal war for imperial expeditions in the middle east has this tendency to piss people off.

Since you're so hardcore though, you could re-enlist? I know somebody's spot you could take in Baghdad.

Desert storm was a cease fire enforced by no-fly zones since 1991.

What proof do you have that a congressional appoved action is illegal.

He's talking about Modern-Day, Dipshit.

Krass_of_nod

Bend, OR

April 2005

AUG 07, 2007 11:45 AM

chainlink said:

Krass_of_nod said:

chainlink said:

Krass_of_nod said:thank you for clarifying my lack of proper facts but if you would like to reference anything else I said go ahead you will find its all accurate...

And thank you for helping me establish a point about who really is controlling you

Trust me, you've not established much of anything. You most certainly, are not controlling me. You blew a bunch of crap out of your ass. You've been called on it. A few times. I could continue to point out more bullshit but I'm afraid I'll pull a muscle if I laugh any harder tonight. Try using some sources next time if you're going to reference a whole diatribe of fun *facts*.

1: where did I say that I control anyone? where? this was intended to mean, that the government controls you. I don't really give a damn if you feel otherwise. I never said I control anyone, ever.

You are pissed, and thats fine which is why i am not being rude, I did it on purpose and yes i have to deal with the fallout for that. You assumed I meant that I control you, and you assumed completely wrong.

2: yes I did establish many points none of which were even close to being refuted, when you are not angry at me, try reading it again with a neutral point of view.

if you really want references open up a college text book on American history that was published out of the country, and get to reading. our texts are edited, much of the crap we did was left out so people like you would not know about it.

3 nothing else aside from the intentionally false info I baited you with, is false, everything else i said is true. Look it all up.

4: some of my points were agreed upon by others in this forum, so please read what everyone else said to

you have anything to say about that?

Yes

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

very funny

and i don't really care what your opinion of me or what I said is....

alpha22

Scottsdale, AZ

May 2005

AUG 07, 2007 11:45 AM

_Poptard_ said:

alpha22 said:

KUNGFOO said:

alpha22 said:
What is offensive about stating my opinion about the IVAW (IRAQ VETERANS AGAINST THE WAR) and its members? Not one of them were drafted they chose to serve!

I joined in 1999 as a naive kid, long before the "war" on terror and an illegal invasion of Iraq. Something about being used to fight an illegal war for imperial expeditions in the middle east has this tendency to piss people off.

Since you're so hardcore though, you could re-enlist? I know somebody's spot you could take in Baghdad.

Desert storm was a cease fire enforced by no-fly zones since 1991.

What proof do you have that a congressional appoved action is illegal.

He's talking about Modern-Day, Dipshit.

My post is to reflect the fact that the first gulf war wasn't over and ended in a cease fire and the so-called invasion couldn't be illegal because it was approved by congress to give the POTUS the power to use force.

wereduck

I'm lost

July 2007

AUG 07, 2007 12:45 PM

NickFaust said:

we3_pirate said:
falseness....do I have to get out the beat down stick of references to show that i am not telling a "crock of shit"

Yes.

nothing I said is lies or false, not any of it, it is all researchable fact.

So show us.

Ithe only thing that is even debatable about what I put here is my own opinion....

I never said "do nothing its the right thing to do because who cares anyway"....

to the contrary I think doing something would be great, but as soon as you do, your head is gonna roll, just like all the people before you. You honestly think they will not kill you or lock you away and parade you through the media as a terrorist or a sympathizer for their enemy. think again

This is just nonsense. I stood for public office and, in that position I sponsored a resolution that made my town one of the first few to publicly disavow the Patriot Act. Did it make a difference to the Gov't ? No. Did it educate the people of my town? Yes. As a result of that activity I was invited to speak on panels with the local FBI and other law enforcement speaking against the Patriot Act. In so doing I reached and educated thousands of people.

My head remains firmly attached to my shoulders. There is much that you can do. Much that you should do. This passive paranoia based thinking of yours is part of the problem. It has nothing to do with the solution.

the people may be getting older, but the money isn't, and it still is in force, so until someone does something about the money, nothing will change.
and aside from that, I would like you tell that to my friends who are dealing with the fact they have broken families now.

99% of the american money is controlled by 15 corporations, the rest of us have the the other 1%...is that a lie NO its also RESEARCHABLE fact.

those people of the armed forces the live and dead ones did not sign on to fight for corporate lies and political bullshit. They deserve a lot better than what they got.

am i being cynical, maybe just a little but I think I am also being a bit realistic...well aside from my 4 step plan, thats just a fantasy.....

point is the government controls you whether you like it or not, and if you really want to go looking for falseness, look no further than the annals of American history, this country was bought and paid for a long time ago, and don't think anything has changed now,

when the entire regime is taken apart and replaced with people who actually have a desire to see good things come about without capitalistic gains in mind, only then will things be better.

Can I suggest that you have something to replace the "entire regime" with before you take it apart.

You are being silly. You need to educate yourself about the ways in which you can make a difference, not the ways you can't.

Um, I think you quoted the wrong person. I didn't write any of that. In fact, I think that guy who did was writing in reply to what I thought.

Cheers.

_kungfoo_

Los Angeles, CA

April 2005

AUG 07, 2007 01:11 PM

alpha22 said:
My post is to reflect the fact that the first gulf war wasn't over and ended in a cease fire and the so-called invasion couldn't be illegal because it was approved by congress to give the POTUS the power to use force.

I'm talking about international law, besides the fact that the original justifications for war proved to be false (WMDs?). But... whatever...

Attempting any kind of intellectual debate with you is obviously pointless (you won't respond to valid points raised and instead probably post another YouTube video with a pop-metal soundtrack and some military stock footage).

But since you believe in the neoconservative plan for Iraq soo much, why don't you re-enlist?

mingol

Singapore

July 2005

AUG 07, 2007 03:10 PM

Oh my god, this thread is utterly retarded.

NickFaust

USA

April 2004

AUG 07, 2007 03:32 PM

Krass_of_nod said:
falseness....do I have to get out the beat down stick of references to show that i am not telling a "crock of shit"

Yes.

nothing I said is lies or false, not any of it, it is all researchable fact.

So show us.

Ithe only thing that is even debatable about what I put here is my own opinion....

I never said "do nothing its the right thing to do because who cares anyway"....

to the contrary I think doing something would be great, but as soon as you do, your head is gonna roll, just like all the people before you. You honestly think they will not kill you or lock you away and parade you through the media as a terrorist or a sympathizer for their enemy. think again

This is just nonsense. I stood for public office and, in that position I sponsored a resolution that made my town one of the first few to publicly disavow the Patriot Act. Did it make a difference to the Gov't ? No. Did it educate the people of my town? Yes. As a result of that activity I was invited to speak on panels with the local FBI and other law enforcement speaking against the Patriot Act. In so doing I reached and educated thousands of people.

My head remains firmly attached to my shoulders. There is much that you can do. Much that you should do. This passive paranoia based thinking of yours is part of the problem. It has nothing to do with the solution.

the people may be getting older, but the money isn't, and it still is in force, so until someone does something about the money, nothing will change.
and aside from that, I would like you tell that to my friends who are dealing with the fact they have broken families now.

99% of the american money is controlled by 15 corporations, the rest of us have the the other 1%...is that a lie NO its also RESEARCHABLE fact.

those people of the armed forces the live and dead ones did not sign on to fight for corporate lies and political bullshit. They deserve a lot better than what they got.

am i being cynical, maybe just a little but I think I am also being a bit realistic...well aside from my 4 step plan, thats just a fantasy.....

point is the government controls you whether you like it or not, and if you really want to go looking for falseness, look no further than the annals of American history, this country was bought and paid for a long time ago, and don't think anything has changed now,

when the entire regime is taken apart and replaced with people who actually have a desire to see good things come about without capitalistic gains in mind, only then will things be better.

Can I suggest that you have something to replace the "entire regime" with before you take it apart.

You are being silly. You need to educate yourself about the ways in which you can make a difference, not the ways you can't.

NickFaust

USA

April 2004

AUG 07, 2007 03:33 PM

we3_pirate said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

NickFaust said:

we3_pirate said:
falseness....do I have to get out the beat down stick of references to show that i am not telling a "crock of shit"

Yes.

nothing I said is lies or false, not any of it, it is all researchable fact.

So show us.

Ithe only thing that is even debatable about what I put here is my own opinion....

I never said "do nothing its the right thing to do because who cares anyway"....

to the contrary I think doing something would be great, but as soon as you do, your head is gonna roll, just like all the people before you. You honestly think they will not kill you or lock you away and parade you through the media as a terrorist or a sympathizer for their enemy. think again

This is just nonsense. I stood for public office and, in that position I sponsored a resolution that made my town one of the first few to publicly disavow the Patriot Act. Did it make a difference to the Gov't ? No. Did it educate the people of my town? Yes. As a result of that activity I was invited to speak on panels with the local FBI and other law enforcement speaking against the Patriot Act. In so doing I reached and educated thousands of people.

My head remains firmly attached to my shoulders. There is much that you can do. Much that you should do. This passive paranoia based thinking of yours is part of the problem. It has nothing to do with the solution.

the people may be getting older, but the money isn't, and it still is in force, so until someone does something about the money, nothing will change.
and aside from that, I would like you tell that to my friends who are dealing with the fact they have broken families now.

99% of the american money is controlled by 15 corporations, the rest of us have the the other 1%...is that a lie NO its also RESEARCHABLE fact.

those people of the armed forces the live and dead ones did not sign on to fight for corporate lies and political bullshit. They deserve a lot better than what they got.

am i being cynical, maybe just a little but I think I am also being a bit realistic...well aside from my 4 step plan, thats just a fantasy.....

point is the government controls you whether you like it or not, and if you really want to go looking for falseness, look no further than the annals of American history, this country was bought and paid for a long time ago, and don't think anything has changed now,

when the entire regime is taken apart and replaced with people who actually have a desire to see good things come about without capitalistic gains in mind, only then will things be better.

Can I suggest that you have something to replace the "entire regime" with before you take it apart.

You are being silly. You need to educate yourself about the ways in which you can make a difference, not the ways you can't.

Um, I think you quoted the wrong person. I didn't write any of that. In fact, I think that guy who did was writing in reply to what I thought.

Cheers.

Fixed it. Sorry

wereduck

I'm lost

July 2007

AUG 07, 2007 05:41 PM

NickFaust said:

we3_pirate said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

NickFaust said:

we3_pirate said:
falseness....do I have to get out the beat down stick of references to show that i am not telling a "crock of shit"

Yes.

nothing I said is lies or false, not any of it, it is all researchable fact.

So show us.

Ithe only thing that is even debatable about what I put here is my own opinion....

I never said "do nothing its the right thing to do because who cares anyway"....

to the contrary I think doing something would be great, but as soon as you do, your head is gonna roll, just like all the people before you. You honestly think they will not kill you or lock you away and parade you through the media as a terrorist or a sympathizer for their enemy. think again

This is just nonsense. I stood for public office and, in that position I sponsored a resolution that made my town one of the first few to publicly disavow the Patriot Act. Did it make a difference to the Gov't ? No. Did it educate the people of my town? Yes. As a result of that activity I was invited to speak on panels with the local FBI and other law enforcement speaking against the Patriot Act. In so doing I reached and educated thousands of people.

My head remains firmly attached to my shoulders. There is much that you can do. Much that you should do. This passive paranoia based thinking of yours is part of the problem. It has nothing to do with the solution.

the people may be getting older, but the money isn't, and it still is in force, so until someone does something about the money, nothing will change.
and aside from that, I would like you tell that to my friends who are dealing with the fact they have broken families now.

99% of the american money is controlled by 15 corporations, the rest of us have the the other 1%...is that a lie NO its also RESEARCHABLE fact.

those people of the armed forces the live and dead ones did not sign on to fight for corporate lies and political bullshit. They deserve a lot better than what they got.

am i being cynical, maybe just a little but I think I am also being a bit realistic...well aside from my 4 step plan, thats just a fantasy.....

point is the government controls you whether you like it or not, and if you really want to go looking for falseness, look no further than the annals of American history, this country was bought and paid for a long time ago, and don't think anything has changed now,

when the entire regime is taken apart and replaced with people who actually have a desire to see good things come about without capitalistic gains in mind, only then will things be better.

Can I suggest that you have something to replace the "entire regime" with before you take it apart.

You are being silly. You need to educate yourself about the ways in which you can make a difference, not the ways you can't.

Um, I think you quoted the wrong person. I didn't write any of that. In fact, I think that guy who did was writing in reply to what I thought.

Cheers.

Fixed it. Sorry

No biggie.

chikinhammr

Orlando, FL

April 2006

AUG 07, 2007 05:49 PM

We are clearly doomed to a country without leaders and without direction. I'm gonna go look at hot naked chicks now.

saltonsea

Toronto, ON

July 2004

AUG 07, 2007 06:57 PM

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.....

aldoushuxley

USA

November 2005

AUG 07, 2007 07:21 PM

Fantastic article once again reaper, but I have a growing suspicion about our congress. I think we can all agree that the bulk of the U.S populace is against the war. However if we are strictly speaking on actions and legislation the bulk of our government is pro war, if this was not the case we would most certainly be doing troop downgrades right now. So instead what is happening is an illusion of anti war sentiment from congress to shut us all up and make us happy. While in the mean time every bill Bush poses that is pro war goes forward yet any cut in funding or change in forriegn policy is rejected. The Dems in my opinion are acting like they are anti war, yet it seems that they are of the same ilk as Dubya and Dick when it comes down to the deeds. It is not suprising really, just sad, and I still have not found a single political candidate with whom I could trust our country with. I suppose R.E.M. had it right then....

Adroitbeing

I'm lost

September 2003

AUG 07, 2007 08:00 PM

So, I wrote my senator who claims to be one of those Democrats, and on some issues might prove to be a pain Bush's side; but not today!

Thank you for contacting me with regard to the recent Senate debate over the National Security Agency's (NSA) wiretapping program. I appreciate hearing from you.

As you know, both the Senate and the House passed temporary legislation, set to expire in six months, that gives the Attorney General and the Director of National Intelligence the authority to approve surveillance operations on international communications. I voted for this legislation after officials in the intelligence community informed Congress of their need to access vital information to assess potential terrorist attacks on the homeland in the coming months.

I share your concerns regarding certain provisions of this legislation, and I am disappointed that the more-measured Democratic wiretapping proposal I supported failed to pass the Senate. However, my fundamental duty as a U.S. Senator is to safeguard America against international and domestic threats. This means ensuring that intelligence and law enforcement officials have the resources they need to target terrorists, to intercept their communications, and to expose and disrupt plots to harm and kill Americans. I believe we must utilize all lawful means to combat terrorists who pose a danger to the United States and its citizens - at home or abroad.

Again, thank you for taking the time to share your views. Please rest assured that I will continue to work with my colleagues to help create a surveillance program that allows our homeland security personnel to vigorously combat terrorism while protecting the privacy of innocent Americans and preserving our long-standing commitment to the rule of law.

Pfft...
I guess Congress has consumed all the Kool Aid and there is too little left to make it out here to the constituency.

NickFaust

USA

April 2004

AUG 08, 2007 04:55 AM

Adroitbeing said:
I believe we must utilize all lawful means to combat terrorists who pose a danger to the United States and its citizens - at home or abroad.

This is a particularly tricky concept, coming from a lawmaker. As, whatever laws they pass become "lawful means."

What people just don't seem to get in this country is that is way, way easier to give up on rights than it is to get them back.

Krass_of_nod

Bend, OR

April 2005

AUG 08, 2007 12:19 PM

you know its kinda funny that if your really read most of the posts in this thread the majority have a dissenting point of view. Even some of the people who called bullshit on some of what i said still conceded that I was right on some levels.

that is the best thing about this thread.

all you people who came after me:

it looks like you have a lot of other peoples comments
that you completely ignored to come after me.

now i am the one laughing,,,,,heheheheheheh

NickFaust

USA

April 2004

AUG 08, 2007 12:34 PM

Krass_of_nod said:
you know its kinda funny that if your really read most of the posts in this thread the majority have a dissenting point of view. Even some of the people who called bullshit on some of what i said still conceded that I was right on some levels.

that is the best thing about this thread.

all you people who came after me:

it looks like you have a lot of other peoples comments
that you completely ignored to come after me.

now i am the one laughing,,,,,heheheheheheh

Dude. The medication is your friend.

NickFaust

USA

April 2004

AUG 08, 2007 12:35 PM

oyaji said:

NickFaust said:

Adroitbeing said:
I believe we must utilize all lawful means to combat terrorists who pose a danger to the United States and its citizens - at home or abroad.

This is a particularly tricky concept, coming from a lawmaker. As, whatever laws they pass become "lawful means."

It's not quite true in general, though it may be in this particular case. Congress is not the final arbiter of what is lawful.

Yeah, I know. It still gives me the creeps when people use this kind of Machiavellian language.

WoLfamongstSheep

Highland, CA

July 2007

AUG 08, 2007 08:58 PM

Politics in this or any country for that matter never cease to amaze me....and i doubt change will come ne time soon at least towards ne thing good.....VIVA LA REVOLUCION!!!!!

BOARDS:

TOPICS:

I'm lost

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AUG 07, 2007 03:16 AM

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AUG 07, 2007 03:27 AM

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AUG 07, 2007 05:23 AM

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AUG 07, 2007 12:45 PM

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chikinhammr

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AUG 07, 2007 07:21 PM

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AUG 08, 2007 12:19 PM

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