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Rin

Rin

SUICIDEGIRL

British Columbia, Canada

JUL 16, 2007 10:47 PM

RudieCantFail said:

edith said:
my point is that it's crazy to get all finger pointy in the first place in this situation.

where it's certainly not great america's fault it's probably not the mother's fault either.



I agree with you, in principle, but the mother was the one who started the finger-pointing in the first place. Since she opened that Pandora's Box, it opened the floor to examining if she was at least as culpable as the water park in the death of her son.



i totally agree with you. no one would be shitting on the mom and blaming her if she didn't try to make it seem like the water park was responsible for her kid.

erleichda

erleichda

Germany
May 2003

JUL 17, 2007 12:01 AM

That's just horrible.

And the mother's trying to shift the blame right now, which is wrong but very understandable. She must know that there really is nobody to blame but herself. You can't leave a four-year old that cannot swim unattended in a pool, much less a wave pool. Not even with floating devices.

There's no use punishing her though, the guilt she must be feeling is the greatest punishment there can possibly be. She made a poor decision and has paid the most horrible price there is. And I feel for her. Sometimes as a parent you make poor decisions. I'm sure I've done it. Everybody does. It's human.

ASSH0LE

ASSH0LE

Las Vegas, NV
June 2003

JUL 17, 2007 12:11 AM

I have sympathy for the mother. I'd also think perhaps they should be looking into whether she's suitable for taking care of her other children.

I've been an uncle for quite a long time. If the kids are in my charge anywhere near water (or anywhere else outside the home) I keep my eyes on them. If they're younger, I keep my eyes on them there as well.

That said, I fell into a pool as a kid and someone else noticed me first. Seven kids are a lot for one mother to watch. And I was about fivish. Evolution almost took its course.

Dark_Templar

Dark_Templar

Auburn, CA
June 2004

JUL 17, 2007 01:24 AM

Been to the Park dozens of times, only an idiot would leave a small kid there under a childs supervision....... especially in the wave pool.......... on busy days there had got to be like 40-50,000 ppl there.............

......mothers fault ......no one else.....

edith

edith

France
April 2006

JUL 17, 2007 02:13 AM

_twitch_ said:

lithocarpus said:

_twitch_ said:

d_day said:

Zarth said:
Anyone who can't spare any sympathy for a mother who's just lost her child isn't worthy of being called human.

You people should be fucking ashamed of yourselves.

That's all I'm going to bother saying.



I love you man but you can fuck right off on this one.



I'll give her some sympathy when she shows some fucking remorse. I'm sure some people don't even feel that charitable.



What the fuck are you on about?



Pardon?

If you're asking "why are you so vehemently angry about this story?" then the answer is that I'm a mother and mothers who exhibit this level of neglect make me very angry. Anyone who's taken care of a toddler for more than 5 minutes knows that you can't turn your back on them for a second before they are trying to accidentally kill themselves.



this kind of attitude is VERY weird to me. "this level of neglect"? do you know her as a person? was she off shooting heroin in the bathroom while she left her 4 year old to walk around Great America all day by himself?

you could be at the park and your kid falls off the slide head first. is this your fault? what about if you look down for a minute to find your sunglasses in your purse and your kid eats a piece of glass? is a person allowed to turn around and have a conversation with their spouse while their child is playing or is that not OK?

the death of a child is the most horrible thing that could happen to a person. i''m sure this woman is torturing herself for not paying closer attention, as is the lifeguard. i hate it when people are like "AS A MOTHER I BLAH BLAH BLAH". as a mother you should know how many times children have close calls. sometimes tragic things happen. i feel terrible for her and don't believe it is "HER FAULT".

Dark_Templar

Dark_Templar

Auburn, CA
June 2004

JUL 17, 2007 03:03 AM

edith said:

_twitch_ said:

lithocarpus said:

_twitch_ said:

d_day said:

Zarth said:
Anyone who can't spare any sympathy for a mother who's just lost her child isn't worthy of being called human.

You people should be fucking ashamed of yourselves.

That's all I'm going to bother saying.



I love you man but you can fuck right off on this one.



I'll give her some sympathy when she shows some fucking remorse. I'm sure some people don't even feel that charitable.



What the fuck are you on about?



Pardon?

If you're asking "why are you so vehemently angry about this story?" then the answer is that I'm a mother and mothers who exhibit this level of neglect make me very angry. Anyone who's taken care of a toddler for more than 5 minutes knows that you can't turn your back on them for a second before they are trying to accidentally kill themselves.



this kind of attitude is VERY weird to me. "this level of neglect"? do you know her as a person? was she off shooting heroin in the bathroom while she left her 4 year old to walk around Great America all day by himself?

you could be at the park and your kid falls off the slide head first. is this your fault? what about if you look down for a minute to find your sunglasses in your purse and your kid eats a piece of glass? is a person allowed to turn around and have a conversation with their spouse while their child is playing or is that not OK?

the death of a child is the most horrible thing that could happen to a person. i''m sure this woman is torturing herself for not paying closer attention, as is the lifeguard. i hate it when people are like "AS A MOTHER I BLAH BLAH BLAH". as a mother you should know how many times children have close calls. sometimes tragic things happen. i feel terrible for her and don't believe it is "HER FAULT".



I've lived in South San Jose for 25 years, its common knowlegde that Marriots (late 80's), Great America(90's), Paramount (today) or whatever it is called is a theme park that requires supervision from responsible adults, it can swell to 50,000+ ppl when it gets busy.

I am not saying that it is directly the mothers fault.......... but anyone who lives in SJ knows that sending a four year old child to an amusement park of this kind requires a responsible guardian who will look after the child. The fact that the mother was "SO" ready to blame the park, hit me as rather funny. Its common sense that children are to be supervised at a theme park. Maybe if the adults involved would have spent more time, planning the trip, this would have never happened.

But instead it is easier to deny responsibilty and blame everyone else for her lack of judgement..............

It is a sad story........... but this is why you should not have a child supervise another child...........

edith

edith

France
April 2006

JUL 17, 2007 04:15 AM

yeah, i've been to great america. the first time i was allowed to go alone i was 15 or something.

i don't know why you think she is denying responsibility. i can't imagine the hell and guilt she is going through. it's just lame when people assume she isn't watching the child. accidents like this happen all the time right in front of loving, responsible parent's noses.

then again not all parents are VERY SMART. i have been in those wave pools and they are crazy. i've been knocked under as a full grown adult and had problems getting back up due to wall to wall inner tubes. you get caught under them. you have to be a strong swimmer for those for sure. i personally wouldn't let a kid under 12 away from my grip.

but being kind of stupid doesn't mean it's her fault and she's negligent or a bad mother. the park actually should (and probably will) now put age restictions on the wave pool and require life jackets for kids under 5. seems like the smart thing to do anyway.

but these things do happen...they happen in the ocean as well. i've heard of parents who ride small waves with their kids who have floaties on, lose grip and the kids drown. is this the parent's fault? the atlantic's fault? the lifeguard's fault? not really, it's just a bad thing.

Bastardo

Bastardo

Boston, MA
January 2005

JUL 17, 2007 04:22 AM

Cash said:

Get off your high horse...seriously.



"Pot? This is Kettle."

Ff

Ff

I'm lost
August 2006

JUL 17, 2007 05:24 AM

edith said:
i personally wouldn't let a kid under 12 away from my grip.



i think this is basically what other people are trying to say. she is not a monster or anything. fucked up shit does happen but the child was her responsibility, not the lifeguards or the parks.

this all brings me back to when i was like 5 or 6, holding on to an inner-tube for dear life in the deep end at Geauga Lakes wave pool. shocked i couldn't swim, and if my mom would have found out about this she would have scratched my drunkard uncles eyes out for taking me.

edith

edith

France
April 2006

JUL 17, 2007 05:48 AM

yeah.

even very small children do have their own free will though. i've heard of toddlers throwing fits and running off into traffic. it doesn't mean the parents suck.

when this kind of thing happens the blame flies everywhere. i seriously doubt the woman blames great america. deep down she knows it's her "fault" and probably just wants it to be prevented from now on. no money is worth a child and i'm 100% the woman would rather have her child's life back then a million great america bucks.

people on this site seem to forget that whenever some child related news story pops up. for example "WHERE ARE THE PARENTS?!?" is a favorite whenever a 14 year old goes to meet a pedophile off the internet. you do know 14 year olds have their own minds and are sneaky, right? even a 1 year old can wander out the front door and into a street while mom is putting laundry in the dryer. kids do their own thing when least expected.

these close calls happen all the time even to the best parents. stop being so judgemental.

Salome

Salome

SUICIDEGIRL

Illinois, USA

JUL 17, 2007 07:20 AM

Shit, I still have a scar on my knee from when that very same wave pool slammed me, and I was 12! That thing is dangerous.

Of course the park and lifeguards has a duty to watch out for their customers, but the ultimate responsibility lies with the mother to keep her child safe. I think she exercised poor judgment by not watching the child, and even poorer judgment by laying the blame solely on the park in what must be a time of great guilt and grief.

FearTheReaper

FearTheReaper

NEWSWIRE

I'm lost

JUL 17, 2007 08:11 AM

edith said:
yeah.

even very small children do have their own free will though. i've heard of toddlers throwing fits and running off into traffic. it doesn't mean the parents suck.

when this kind of thing happens the blame flies everywhere. i seriously doubt the woman blames great america. deep down she knows it's her "fault" and probably just wants it to be prevented from now on. no money is worth a child and i'm 100% the woman would rather have her child's life back then a million great america bucks.

people on this site seem to forget that whenever some child related news story pops up. for example "WHERE ARE THE PARENTS?!?" is a favorite whenever a 14 year old goes to meet a pedophile off the internet. you do know 14 year olds have their own minds and are sneaky, right? even a 1 year old can wander out the front door and into a street while mom is putting laundry in the dryer. kids do their own thing when least expected.

these close calls happen all the time even to the best parents. stop being so judgemental.



Look up the word "Unattended"

DhD_No_Pants

DhD_No_Pants

Katy, TX
May 2006

JUL 17, 2007 08:20 AM

It is so sad to me to hear stories about children who die in accidents like this. Hearing about a parent who loses a child not because of outright neglect or abuse, but sheer (I want to say stupidity but that isn't the right word)

She will have to go the rest of her life with this guilt, and I don't wish that on anyone. That is probably why she is laying the blame on the park, to try and alleviate some of her own guilt.

The wave pool was a clear and obvious danger to her child, and it seems that she just left him there with it. This isn't an instance of going to get the clothes out of the dryer, and your kid choking on a bottle cap they found under the sofa cushion.

edith

edith

France
April 2006

JUL 17, 2007 09:27 AM

it's not too different in my opinion.

the kid was playing with his older sister in the shallow end and the mom was standing by the edge of the pool. maybe she was talking to somebody and glancing every couple minutes at her kids, who knows. it was a hot day, she was probably relaxed and calm and enjoying the moment.

it doesn't sound like she left him anywhere. it sounds like she wasn't holding on to him, which is pretty common for 4 year olds in the shallow end of the pool. it also sounds like the pool is brand new. these things always happen with new attractions. i guess the water is still and then the waves start and they are pretty rough. an article i read said it's kind of a shock to the kids playing in the shallow end.

most likely they will re-open it with a shitload of rules, which is good.

doolittle

doolittle

Mesa, AZ
December 2004

JUL 17, 2007 09:31 AM

edith said:
it also sounds like the pool is brand new. these things always happen with new attractions.



wait, what? how does a wave pool sound new? what does that have to do with a mother leaving her child unattended?

edith

edith

France
April 2006

JUL 17, 2007 09:51 AM

doolittle said:

edith said:
it also sounds like the pool is brand new. these things always happen with new attractions.



wait, what? how does a wave pool sound new? what does that have to do with a mother leaving her child unattended?



they just opened it.

when new things open you have to work out the kinks. such as not enough lifeguards or not requiring lifejackets. or not enough huge ass warning signs in every language. or whatever.

and the mom was standing by the side of the pool.

erleichda

erleichda

Germany
May 2003

JUL 17, 2007 12:22 PM

I was at a wave pool today with my five year old and had to think of this story. Being there in the water it's really easy to imagine various situations under which a 4 year old could drown, even in the most shallow part of the pool. Because once the waves start rolling the shallow end is where they will break and most likely be knocking a small child off it's feet. Also it's really not easy to keep track of people not very close to you during the waves, everybody's constantly going up and down, there's a lot of noise, too, from the water and the people. You could easily miss a young one's cries for help.

As I said before I feel deeply sorry for her. Losing a child is horrible. But she made a wrong decision when she let him in the pool alone when he couldn't swim or without a vest or even swimmies/water wings (which are an absolute MUST for my son in ANY pool, until he's learned to swim reasonably well).

skeptik

skeptik

New Orleans, LA
February 2004

JUL 17, 2007 09:34 PM

edith said:
it's not too different in my opinion.

the kid was playing with his older sister in the shallow end and the mom was standing by the edge of the pool. maybe she was talking to somebody and glancing every couple minutes at her kids, who knows. it was a hot day, she was probably relaxed and calm and enjoying the moment.

it doesn't sound like she left him anywhere. it sounds like she wasn't holding on to him, which is pretty common for 4 year olds in the shallow end of the pool.
...



Well, no. Mom wasn't "standing by the side of the pool, glancing every couple of minutes at her kids," and he wasn't "playing with his older sister," shallow end or not.


From the linked story:

Flores said she had not been in the pool with her son at the time and does not know how he drowned. The 4-year-old had been in the water earlier, got out to eat some chips and went back in, she said.

When he didn't return within 10 minutes, she said, she became concerned and told her daughter to find him. After Jasmine told her mother she couldn't see the boy, both started toward the pool, where Jasmine ultimately found him underwater, Flores said. The girl's screams attracted the lifeguards' attention, she said.



Even if you accept her version of events.

She didn't see her son for ten minutes. And her daughter wasn't with him, she was with her mom. Which was how she could ask her to find her brother.

The kid was alone in the wave pool, unattended by either his mother or his big sister. For at least ten minutes. Mom wasn't with him, and she wasn't keeping an eye on him. Not even glancing every couple of minutes.

thefreak

thefreak

NEWSWIRE

Gardner, MA

JUL 17, 2007 10:58 PM

edith said:
i seriously doubt the woman blames great america.


Say wha?

Park officials said six lifeguards were on duty when one spotted Carlos around 2:30 p.m. near the middle of the pool, where the water is about 2 feet deep when waves aren't rolling through. At its deepest point, the pool is 6 feet deep.

Flores, 27, said there were only four lifeguards at the pool at the time and that her 8-year-old daughter, Jasmine, was the one who spotted the boy underwater after he apparently had been there for several minutes.

"That's a lie that there were six," Flores said. "There's four lifeguards there. How can they not see my son? There's three walking and one sitting. They weren't doing their job. He was in 2 feet of water. How could he drown?


Apparently she was better @counting lifeguards than keeping an eye on her kid herself, instead of his 8-year-old sibling.

"I want this to be known," Flores said between sobs. "I want to warn all parents that they need to watch their kids at all times, because (Great America) doesn't do their job."


Blame? Noooooo......

-TM

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