smithers_jones said:
In Afghanistan it was more than simply arming the Mujhadeen. More significant was that the US through Pakistani and Saudi proxies helped to create the political, ideoogical and financial infrastructure for the radical Islamist movement--which is why the Frankenstien was able to grow and thrive long after US arms and funds dried up when they had served their purpose as American proxies against the Soviets. (The fact that for decades the US also actively destroyed secular nationalist, and secular left forces througout the Middle East that would have been a counter to the Islamists, didn't help much either.) Mahmood Mamdani wrote an excellent history of this in Good Muslim, Bad Muslim: America, the Cold War, and the Roots of Terror.

But what do I know? I'm not in Iraq or Bakersfield.

Well, yeah. If you want to, like, make sense or something.

One thing I am leery of, though, is the creeping denial of agency to our enemies I often see the American left doing. While it's certainly true that the United States helped - in manifold ways - to develop the connections and organizations that ultimately resulted in the Taliban and al-Qaeda (and radical Islamism in general), due to the exigencies of the Cold War, it's a step from there to say that we 'created,' or were even really responsible for the movement.

I know you're not necessarily saying that, of course. I'm just making a preemptive strike. America. Fuck yeah.

Until you've been to Iraq or move to Bakersfield, I'm not going to listen to anything you have to say.

SouGei

Blackwood, NJ

January 2007

JUN 14, 2007 04:30 PM

Is that pic from an Utada Hikaru vid? Well, it is.

aldoushuxley

USA

November 2005

JUN 14, 2007 04:53 PM

Where exactly do you guy's get your information from. I am not being an ass hole I am actually seriously interested. Yes I have been to Iraq but only to parts of Iraq, mainly Stryker I am going back soon, and maybe things are done differently in different parts. I mainly would like to hear where Kung Foo, and fear the reaper get their info. I would like links or site listings book titles news papers etc. if possible. The point is this is a lot of information I have not heard yet and it kind of scares me to be this far behind the wheel. The reasons those two specifically, because they have showed the most varied array of knoweledge on the subject. I will concede as well that I have been a little indoctrinated by the military, I think it's beliefs are seperate of any party though. It functions almost like an elitist society would, like rich people and actors. All I am saying is I am interested and receptive to the info you have.

Tiger_Fodder

Braintree, MA

June 2007

JUN 14, 2007 05:18 PM

"Let's be honest, the enemy now is not the Americans, for the time being," Suleiman said. "It's al-Qaeda and the [Shiite] militias. Those are our enemies."

FOR THE TIME BEING?...Shit! So when we turn our back they will shoot us with our own guns. Just when you thought these "leaders" could not do any worse they come up with this. And who is arming the Shiite militias? Iran AND US! Last time I checked the Iraqi government was mostly Shiite, where are those guns we are giving the Iraqi military? So the Suni extremists are aligned with al-Qaeda, and the Shiite extremists with Iraq. Does it sound like we should make friends with either? This is a worse quagmire than Vietnam.

Is W going to ask his buddies in Saudi to bail him out on this one? Daddy can't do much any more!

emotedcreations

Germany

July 2006

JUN 14, 2007 06:00 PM

aldushuxley said:
I mainly would like to hear where Kung Foo, and fear the reaper get their info.

KUNGFOO already said that he has been to Iraq. Although I don't know the specifics, I believe he served there (I do know he served, so it's reasonable that's where it was since he said he's been there.).

Oz_the_Vamp

Lorain, OH

June 2005

JUN 14, 2007 06:39 PM

We are morons.

_kungfoo_

Los Angeles, CA

April 2005

JUN 14, 2007 07:09 PM

aldushuxley said:
Where exactly do you guy's get your information from. I am not being an ass hole I am actually seriously interested. Yes I have been to Iraq but only to parts of Iraq, mainly Stryker I am going back soon, and maybe things are done differently in different parts. I mainly would like to hear where Kung Foo, and fear the reaper get their info. I would like links or site listings book titles news papers etc. if possible. The point is this is a lot of information I have not heard yet and it kind of scares me to be this far behind the wheel. The reasons those two specifically, because they have showed the most varied array of knoweledge on the subject. I will concede as well that I have been a little indoctrinated by the military, I think it's beliefs are seperate of any party though. It functions almost like an elitist society would, like rich people and actors. All I am saying is I am interested and receptive to the info you have.

Read. And then read some more. Then do some honest thinking for yourself about what you've read. Allow yourself to be honestly challenged by the information you've read.

That being said, I have no problems making a recommendation or two. Here's a few sites that I tend to usually stop by:

BBC News: news.bbc.co.uk
Progressive Review: www.prorev.com
LA Times: www.latimes.com
Think Progress: www.thinkprogress.org
NY Times: www.nytimes.com
Democracy Now!: www.democracynow.org

...to name just a few. There's a wealth of information out there, and some of it is brilliant and some of it is retarded. Truth is, it's usually harder to find the more intelligent information over the retarded shit. It's out there though. But the most important thing to remember is to think for yourself and not let me or anybody else tell you how to think!!

As for books, I finished Imperial Life in the Emerald City not too long ago which I thought was a great read. I'm working my way through Noam Chomsky's latest now, Failed States.

And the CE threads on SG.com are usually a very intellectually stimulating read. Great accomplishment for a website that's main draw is boobies.

seanvegas

Lincoln, NE

December 2004

JUN 14, 2007 10:55 PM

Chiang Kai-shek made the exact same alliance with the Communists to better fight against the Japanese! And we all know how that turned out!

zarth

Seattle, WA

December 2004

JUN 14, 2007 11:01 PM

seanvegas said:
Chiang Kai-shek made the exact same alliance with the Communists to better fight against the Japanese! And we all know how that turned out!

Actually, it was Chiang Kai-shek who betrayed the Communists and spent more time fighting them than he did the Japanese. That was one of the chief reasons the Communists became more popular and eventually won.

It would be more appropriate to say that the Communists tried it with Chiang Kai-shek and look how well that turned out. Except that it did turn out pretty well for them in the end (by which I mean that they won - the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution sucked, of course).

Really, China is a bad analogy.

smithers_jones said:
Until you've been to Iraq or move to Bakersfield, I'm not going to listen to anything you have to say.

What? I can't hear you, sorry. I'm in BAKERSFIELD, bitch!