NEWS: A New Cold War with Russia: Just What We Needed!

If I understood Putin correctly, he said that if this deployment went ahead, it would have to be targeted. Lots of people have tried to spin it as "Russia will target Europe's cities", though.

That's pretty much the way I heard it, too. I'm also given to understand that a majority of the population in both the Czech Republic and Poland oppose deployment.

No. There is a fundamental misunderstanding (here, at least) about that war: that Britain won it, or could ever have won it. It has been a bugbear of British politics ever since, and it is wrong.

Well, speaking as a historian, I'd have to agree that Britain was basically sidelined from very early on. The main war in Europe was in the East, and Anglo-American troops didn't even touch Continental soil until long after the victory of the Red Army was certain - and with reason.

The United States was heavily involved in the Pacific War, though we tend to downplay that and exaggerate our influence in the European theater because Europe was less morally murky and our enmity with the Germans was largely uncompromised by racism.

Even in the Pacific Theater, though, the contributions of Chinese resistance fighters to victory is usually seriously underestimated.

Country----------- Military deaths---Civilian deaths-------Total Deaths
United Kingdom------382,600-----------67,800----------------450,400
United States--------407,300------------11,200----------------418,500

Other than the fact that our continental shores weren't invaded, how did we fare much better than Britain?

Linky

Noone deserves missiles, period. Not a fan of indiscriminate weaponry, especially of the AoE variety. As for America in particular... it needs to be spanked more than blown up, but Iran may prefer to be lazy and send missiles rather than pick up a paddle and get on a plane. They'd probably be detained for being terrorists, anyway.

I think I only got as far as WWI in history... that one should have taught people that the deterrence tactic is, as Blackadder put it, bollocks. I don't think the Nazis invaded Britain, did they? Just bombed the dren out of it.

Reminded of two things, thinking about this. The first is Doctor Who, so it's probably biased, but accurate I think:

"Right now, not very far from here, the German war machine is rolling up the map of Europe. Country after country falling like dominoes, nothing can stop it, nothing. Until one tiny damp little island says 'No. No, not here.' A mouse in front of a lion. You're amazing, the lot of you."

And the other is this:



Think there should have been a beaten up kid in a bowler hat in the background of that last bit, heh.

Edited to add: There's also the Litvinenko thing making things uncomfortable between Russia and the UK as well.

If by "one tiny damp little island says 'No. No, not here,'" you mean Leningrad, then yes, that's correct.

I'm not insulting British courage, and I'm not saying the Germans could have easily invaded Britain, or even really invaded it at all. But that was never tested - and the reason it was never tested was because of the Eastern Front.

That was a pretty funny video, though.

Good thing the Russians didn't throw in the towel the second time around, then.

Apart from the ratios of casualties to population, which you left out - about 5 to 1, IIRC - it would be the minor detail that the British Empire isn't there any more. In 1939, the British Empire still looked like a superpower. By 1945, it clearly wasn't.

None of this is incorrect (though I am not clear about the Chinese resistance contribution, and the phrasing does smell strongly of "America, love it or leave it". That may be a difference of intended audience, though). It does completely ignore the global shift of power, and the first two years of the war.

Certainly, I hadn't intended any jingoism in that synopsis, and I apologize if it came across that way.

The first two years of the war aren't dealt with much over here (and as I seem to recall, consisted of comparatively little fighting on the mainland in the first year or after the blitzkrieg, though I could be misremembering), as you might imagine - and as my academic work in that time period focussed primarily on the Soviet Union, that focus wasn't corrected overmuch in my own particular education.

As for the global shift of power, I assume you're referring to the disintegration of the great European empires and the replacement of the multipolar Great Power system with the pseudo-bipolar order of the Cold War.

I wasn't really so much ignoring it as not addressing it, since my comment was mainly concerned with our national myths of action in the war.

In all fairness, the Soviet Union did achieve a great number of its national security goals. The USSR expanded territorially at the expanse of Finland (and forced them into cooperation status with the COMECON), gained control of the Danube's access into the Black Sea, removed Germany and Poland as military threats, regained the Baltic states, reversed losses against Japan in 1905, as well as gaining a large number of allied states in Central and Eastern Europe. Russian international prestige reached a level unachieved since the 1812 and 1815 defeats of Napoleon. Moreover, if Amir Weiner is to be believed, the Soviet victory in WWII created a wartime myth that provided a source of domestic legitimacy for the Soviet regime that allowed it to govern with at least tacit consent of the majority of its population.

The cost of victory was incredibly high, but the USSR emerged from the war at least as powerful as it had entered it.

Note: The average Soviet citizen clearly suffered under the war much more than they benefited from the peace settlement. We are discussing, however, the Soviet state.

Renewed frosty relations with Russia would be bad, if for no other reason, than it would halt the influx of hot Russian babes into the West.

Tip-of-the-hat: Westley and Zarth

The US is not acting like the Cold War is on. The Federal government is acting like the Cold War is on, specifically The Republican Party, more specifically the radical Republican right wingers that control the party and control key decision making positions within the Federal Goverment are still acting like the Cold War is continuing. Their tactics and ways of running the Federal Government is antiquated and they should be replaced. The Federal Government has become the disturbers of our peace in the 21st century. Democracy is dying. The ideology of Empire is taking hold of those in power and they must be stopped, now. They must be stopped before freedom and democracy is crushed by the new expansionist republic.
Like the British Empire before us, the Federal Government and radical Republicans on the inside are slowly attacking our nation from the inside out. Their Empire ideology will drown freedom, their expansionist ambitions and radical visions show no signs of restraint. The Federal Government continues to build nuclear missles, military bases in the Middle East and build a global ballistic missile shield with our tax payer money, for what? For nothing more than containment against dissident nations within the empire and to propagate the fear of war. Democracy has become nothing more than a facade, behind it are men that wish to exploit the world for what its worth ($$$).
We must move to remove the radical Republican regime and ideology from the Federal Government before it is too late. Reformation of the Government must take place even if involves the dissolution of the Union, reformation must take place to save and defend our freedoms of life.

So, ah, we in Alaska CAN'T leave the union and make a military alliance with Russia. A great chunk of our population are all in the U.S. military, and most of our politicians are Republicans.

Aha.... so your addressing of national myths clashed with mine? Cool

Precisely. Which should scarcely be surprising.

I'm not really sure what your point is supposed to be, here, but that's not so different from the situation with Russia and Ukraine (for instance) under the Soviet Union. The Ukrainian ethnic identity is a fairly recent historical development, and the Russian and Ukrainian languages remain mutually intelligible.

I'll agree that it might be seen as a draw. But 20 million dead...

Also, I am not convinced that we are discussing the Soviet state. I think we're discussing the Soviet nation; which is different.

And I don't think that this changes my basic point: the USA was the only clear winner; the British Empire was not a winner.

Agreed.

yeah, I uhh.....

yeah.