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montestruc

montestruc

Houston, TX
June 2004

JUN 09, 2007 05:44 PM

oyaji said:

montestruc said:

Well that is only fair since you have not figured out that you have already been annihilated.



You talk a lot of shit for someone so light in the ass.



Thank you biggrin

I would say the same of you but some person might decide that was an attack and snitch.

So when are you going to do all this anal absorption thing, you threatened? Or was it anal action? or what ? I forget but it cannot be all that important given it was you who threatened it.

Just curious.

How is that done over the internet anyway?

Or all you all hot air ?

Ohhhhh!!

God it's not the smell its the burning in my eyes!!

You are gross!


puke ARRR!!! surreal puke

Zarth

zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

JUN 09, 2007 05:45 PM

oyaji said:

montestruc said:
Well that is only fair since you have not figured out that you have already been annihilated.


You talk a lot of shit for someone so light in the ass.


He's right, though. I totally haven't figured out that I've already been annihilated.

montestruc

montestruc

Houston, TX
June 2004

JUN 09, 2007 05:50 PM

oyaji said:

montestruc said:
How is the fact that the federal government reneged on the promises of the 14th amendment for about 100 years made whole by doing it again with ethnic quotas? Those quotas only make whites feel that blacks in higher positions in business did not earn them.

It adds fuel to the fire, it does not put it out.

Color blind rules/laws work, witness the fact of very high ranking officers in the US Military.



What quotas are you talking about? The federal government does not set quotas for private business. Maybe you are so psychotic about the big, bad federal government because you don't have the first fucking clue how federal regulations affect private business. Ever consider that?




They set quotas for federal contracts for minority owned businesses, they set quotas for schools as to how many minorities of what type to admit, given that private industry does all the contracting for the government, and must draw educated new employees from universities and had laws stating discrimination was not allowed with big fines attached, how can you claim the government set no quotas for private businesses?

attn_ho

attn_ho

Brooklyn, NY
February 2004

JUN 09, 2007 05:59 PM

montestruc said:

oyaji said:

montestruc said:
How is the fact that the federal government reneged on the promises of the 14th amendment for about 100 years made whole by doing it again with ethnic quotas? Those quotas only make whites feel that blacks in higher positions in business did not earn them.

It adds fuel to the fire, it does not put it out.

Color blind rules/laws work, witness the fact of very high ranking officers in the US Military.



What quotas are you talking about? The federal government does not set quotas for private business. Maybe you are so psychotic about the big, bad federal government because you don't have the first fucking clue how federal regulations affect private business. Ever consider that?




They set quotas for federal contracts for minority owned businesses, they set quotas for schools as to how many minorities of what type to admit, given that private industry does all the contracting for the government, and must draw educated new employees from universities and had laws stating discrimination was not allowed with big fines attached, how can you claim the government set no quotas for private businesses?


heres a tip: on the CE boards, its polite to cite your sources for your assertions. otherwise, peeps tend to think youre talking out of your shorts.

Uncognitive

Uncognitive

Brooklyn, NY
May 2003

JUN 09, 2007 06:06 PM

montestruc said:
How is the fact that the federal government reneged on the promises of the 14th amendment for about 100 years made whole by doing it again with ethnic quotas? Those quotas only make whites feel that blacks in higher positions in business did not earn them.

It adds fuel to the fire, it does not put it out.

Color blind rules/laws work, witness the fact of very high ranking officers in the US Military.



Please cite me exactly what quotas you're talking about, especially ones that apply to private industries that do not deal with government contracts.

Bastardo

Bastardo

Boston, MA
January 2005

JUN 09, 2007 06:11 PM

Uncognitive said:

montestruc said:
How is the fact that the federal government reneged on the promises of the 14th amendment for about 100 years made whole by doing it again with ethnic quotas? Those quotas only make whites feel that blacks in higher positions in business did not earn them.

It adds fuel to the fire, it does not put it out.

Color blind rules/laws work, witness the fact of very high ranking officers in the US Military.



Please cite me exactly what quotas you're talking about, especially ones that apply to private industries that do not deal with government contracts.



Countdown to troll ignoring question and flying off on another tangent.....5....4....3....2.....

emotedcreations

emotedcreations

Germany
July 2006

JUN 09, 2007 06:12 PM

montestruc said:
wink I would not call it going crazy, and "91" is not "numbers" it is a single number, and by itself does not mean much.

91 freshman out of a freshman class of 100 is a hell of a lot different from 91 freshmen out of a class of 100,000, and honestly I do not know how big the freshman class at UCLA is.

I suspect from the context that it is over 1000, but how much more, I have not a clue, and I am not inclined to research if for you given that you live their and your wife works at the school. if you were speaking of University of New Orleans or LSU then I would not mind it so much, as I am an alumnus of both.




91 students is roughly 1% of the entering freshmen class. It took me all of 30 seconds to figure that out, and I figured it out all the way over in Rhode Island.

montestruc

montestruc

Houston, TX
June 2004

JUN 09, 2007 09:20 PM

Uncognitive said:

montestruc said:
How is the fact that the federal government reneged on the promises of the 14th amendment for about 100 years made whole by doing it again with ethnic quotas? Those quotas only make whites feel that blacks in higher positions in business did not earn them.

It adds fuel to the fire, it does not put it out.

Color blind rules/laws work, witness the fact of very high ranking officers in the US Military.



Please cite me exactly what quotas you're talking about, especially ones that apply to private industries that do not deal with government contracts.



Why?

montestruc

montestruc

Houston, TX
June 2004

JUN 09, 2007 09:23 PM

EmoTarkin said:

montestruc said:
wink I would not call it going crazy, and "91" is not "numbers" it is a single number, and by itself does not mean much.

91 freshman out of a freshman class of 100 is a hell of a lot different from 91 freshmen out of a class of 100,000, and honestly I do not know how big the freshman class at UCLA is.

I suspect from the context that it is over 1000, but how much more, I have not a clue, and I am not inclined to research if for you given that you live their and your wife works at the school. if you were speaking of University of New Orleans or LSU then I would not mind it so much, as I am an alumnus of both.




91 students is roughly 1% of the entering freshmen class. It took me all of 30 seconds to figure that out, and I figured it out all the way over in Rhode Island.



Wooo Hooo!!

A freshman class of ~ 10,000 per semester for one university!!!

That pretty strongly implies student population of ballpark 40,000 to 60,000, that is a huge university.

emotedcreations

emotedcreations

Germany
July 2006

JUN 09, 2007 09:30 PM

montestruc said:
Wooo Hooo!!

A freshman class of ~ 10,000 per semester for one university!!!

That pretty strongly implies student population of ballpark 40,000 to 60,000, that is a huge university.



Maybe I did my math wrong, but the undergrad is roughly 26,000 divided by 4 is 6500... 91/6500 ~ .014 I think... so I guess you could say it's 1.5%.

But whatever, don't "woo hoo" me... I was just trying to help the conversation along...

skeptik

skeptik

New Orleans, LA
February 2004

JUN 09, 2007 10:17 PM

montestruc said:

skeptik said:


The current "color-blind" nature of the military is a direct result of aggressive and ongoing affirmative action. Even so, it isn't yet perfect, and minorities are still under-represented in the officer ranks. But it gives an example of what can be acheived.



Point taken. But once they get out of school the quotas stop right?



I don't know. Do you?

Here's a novel idea - why don't you do some of your own research and get back with the answer.

But here's the thing. Who cares? Even if they do stop after the Academy, the current balance was acheived through affirmative action.

You said that "no minority set asides or quotas existed in those institutions," so they acted color blind. Whatever you think affirmative action means, the article I linked clearly showed that set asides and quotas - as well as other sorts of assistance - absolutely exist and have existed in the officer corps. In a way that is absolutely equivalent to college admissions.

Your pure military meritocracy is a fantasy.

Zarth

zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

JUN 09, 2007 10:30 PM

skeptik said:
Your pure military meritocracy is a fantasy.


Any pure meritocracy is a fantasy. There has been no civilization in recorded history that has not advanced the claim that its resources and authority are distributed according to personal merit and qualifications, nor has there ever been a civilization in recorded history that has not actually distributed its resources and authority on the basis of nepotism and cronyism.

That's an enduring disconnection between what we want to believe about our society and how we actually behave.

Zarth

zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

JUN 09, 2007 10:55 PM

I suspect he's more consistent than that, but you never know.

skeptik

skeptik

New Orleans, LA
February 2004

JUN 09, 2007 11:14 PM

Oyaji said:

But when he drove around in louisiana, this black guy he knows (and some of his best friends are black) told him that it's okay that he's a racist.

You are gross!


Cockroach!

montestruc

montestruc

Houston, TX
June 2004

JUN 09, 2007 11:57 PM

oyaji said:

montestruc said:

oyaji said:

montestruc said:

Well that is only fair since you have not figured out that you have already been annihilated.



You talk a lot of shit for someone so light in the ass.



Thank you biggrin

I would say the same of you but some person might decide that was an attack and snitch.

So when are you going to do all this anal absorption thing, you threatened? Or was it anal action? or what ? I forget but it cannot be all that important given it was you who threatened it.

Just curious.

How is that done over the internet anyway?

Or all you all hot air ?

Ohhhhh!!

God it's not the smell its the burning in my eyes!!

You are gross!


puke ARRR!!! surreal puke



I dare you to point me to a single instance in which I have insulted you personally.

While you may get your jollies calling people "roaches" or whatever other lame-ass buckwaas you put in your post attacking me that was probably flagged within seconds of you posting it by the dozen or so people on my friends list that are following this thread, I understand the motherfucking rules of the boards and do my best to abide by them. You don't have the right to insult people here. This is, after all, private property. Why don't you practice what you preach, eh? You libertarians go all soft and gooey for private property, don't you?

I'm very sorry that you got taken out behind the woodshed by one of the mods. One thing you could do would be to go complain to someone who gives a fuck, because no one here is going to feel sorry for you. Take it on the chin and move on.



Dude the rules state no personal attacks. While you may not call it an "insult" to state you are going to "annihilate" me, I do, and regardless it is a personal attack.

I think most sane people would take a statement to the effect that you would "annihilate them" to be a personal attack. I assumed that you would know the rules and would act within them.

I may have indeed made a personal attack in reply, but I only intended it in jest, and if you are going to act as if my comparisons of you personally to distasteful things as worse than your threats to "annihilate" me, I would say that is very much a subjective matter of opinion and you started the personal attacks.

I actually take offense at the idea expressed by some people on this thread that it is "racist" to call people who engage in looting and rioting barbarians, or to read massive racism in truthful criticism of acts like those of the LA riots that took place in the early 1990s.

Perhaps it is racist to think that O.J. Simpson got away with the murder of his ex-wife and her lover? Should whites have rioted over it? Rodney King did not die and was not even disabled by the police. Mr Goldman and Ms. Brown were not so lucky.

Are you standing their and saying that the 50 odd murders were justified, that robbing all those store owners was just? That the insinuation that the riots stopped at least in part because social security and welfare checks were due soon was racist? Why?

You think that suggesting a less than pure motive as to ending the rioting is racist, after we have seen the rioters have shown they are willing to act in a disgustingly barbaric manner?

Are you stating that the mayor of LA making those statements on TV about the jury verdicts was not provocative? Was that responsible given that he did not sit through the whole trial and hear all the evidence?

What if it had been poor whites who rioted, and then stopped just before dole checks were to be issued, would it be racist then to point this out as a likely motive?

When the shoe is on the other foot what do you call them? Until sometime in the 1950s or 1960s IIRC nearly all race riots (but for one case during WWI where some armed black US Army troops under considerable provocation in Texas did so) resulted in far more deaths of blacks than whites and far more damage to black owned property that to whites. I think that rioting is evil and barbaric regardless of who does it.

While it is not a personal attack, I do not see that anyone here has had much concern about facts regarding the subjects discussed, and that troubles me.

You and others on this thread seem to think that facts can be racist and so should be covered up.

But you seem to have no problem making personal attacks on me and then snitching on me when I reply in kind, oh I forget it was one of your many supporters. Right , ,

Whatever you say big brother.

1984--


montestruc

montestruc

Houston, TX
June 2004

JUN 10, 2007 12:34 AM

oyaji said:
I wonder if monstertruck is against legacy admissions policies in higher education, which amounts to affirmative action for rich white people. I suppose he'll explain to us how it's all part of the federal government's plot to take his father's engineering job and give it to unqualified minorities.



No, it is the private business of that university. Nobody is forcing them one way or another.

My father passed away in 1996 after a lengthy illness in a charity hospital, I washed dishes in a university cafeteria, and did many other distasteful things to help pay for my education during much of that period. I was only out of school two years at the time he passed. I had almost no help at all from my family getting my education.

A combination of many things, some of them his fault, some bad luck, and some malice of others resulted in my father being very ill and almost destitute the last 15 odd years of his life. He did not have a" job" for some ten years before that he was an independent businessman, a consulting and design engineer.

So he did not have such a job to give away, and was one of those minorities in the first place.

My father was a Mexican-American and had to fight discrimination against him much of his life. He made his own way by hard work and determination.

You might not have meant it as such, but I do take that above as a very personal attack.

You act as if it is I who knows nothing of discrimination and overcoming obstacles, yet their you sit talking about your connections and so on as a big shot white lawyer in NYC.

Neither my father nor I went to a private university where such things (Legacy Admissions) are common or even an issue. He went to New Mexico State, and I to University of New Orleans and LSU.

You said you were white. Tell me did you ever goto a prominently black school at any point in time? Have you ever been counted as among an unwanted minority at any point in your life? If you have not I do not think you have any place talking to me about what I don't know about it.

I have, often for years in middle and high school been in the unwanted minority at school..


_DictionaryGirl_

_DictionaryGirl_

NEWSWIRE

San Diego, CA

JUN 10, 2007 12:38 AM

montestruc said:

I have, often for years in middle and high school been in the unwanted minority at school.



Am I reading this right?

Zarth

zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

JUN 10, 2007 12:40 AM

_DictionaryGirl_ said:

montestruc said:
I have, often for years in middle and high school been in the unwanted minority at school.


Am I reading this right?


I'm pretty sure you are.

montestruc

montestruc

Houston, TX
June 2004

JUN 10, 2007 12:41 AM

oyaji said:
But when he drove around in louisiana, this black guy he knows (and some of his best friends are black) told him that it's okay that he's a racist.



He was not my friend, he was a business associate of my father's, around 20 years older than I, and he said no such thing, to me anyway.




montestruc

montestruc

Houston, TX
June 2004

JUN 10, 2007 12:54 AM

_DictionaryGirl_ said:

montestruc said:

I have, often for years in middle and high school been in the unwanted minority at school.



Am I reading this right?



I went to predominantly black schools for middle and high school in Louisiana soon after desegregation hit in the early '70s during which time most of the more well to do parents (white and black) pulled their kids out of public schools over the violence of desegregation in the south at that time. That resulted in defacto white kids being the small minority as those who could afford it pulled their kids out. (More whites could afford to pull the kids out than blacks obviously).

My parents had just started to divorce and my dad had lost his job, ( he went on to start a firm soon after) and anyway from what I knew of both of them pulling me out of it was out of the question.

It was not fun for any of the kids, black or white. Kids carrying guns & knives and such to school is now considered a big deal, it was SOP where I went to school. Several kids were cut up.

Do you understand that?

attn_ho

attn_ho

Brooklyn, NY
February 2004

JUN 10, 2007 01:00 AM

oyaji said:

montestruc said:

_DictionaryGirl_ said:

montestruc said:

I have, often for years in middle and high school been in the unwanted minority at school.



Am I reading this right?



I went to predominantly black schools for middle and high school in Louisiana soon after desegregation hit in the early '70s during which time most of the more well to do parents (white and black) pulled their kids out of public schools over the violence of desegregation in the south at that time. That resulted in defacto white kids being the small minority as those who could afford it pulled their kids out. (More whites could afford to pull the kids out than blacks obviously).

My parents had just started to divorce and my dad had lost his job, ( he went on to start a firm soon after) and anyway from what I knew of both of them pulling me out of it was out of the question.

It was not fun for any of the kids, black or white. Kids carrying guns & knives and such to school is now considered a big deal, it was SOP where I went to school. Several kids were cut up.

Do you understand that?



The "violence of desegregation" ?? What do you think the response to segregation should have been? Do you disagree with Brown v. Board of Education?


cant they be, like, seprate and yet equal? i mean, except for the money funding the schools?

montestruc

montestruc

Houston, TX
June 2004

JUN 10, 2007 01:03 AM

oyaji said:

montestruc said:

One can also think that maybe the cabby given a large choice of clients is going to go for the one he thinks will tip most, the dude who's outfit screams money loudly is going to get the first ride IMHO. That is not racism, that is a simple money self-interest issue.



It's racism if the cabbie assumes that an African-American won't tip as well as a white person. But, obviously, it's true that any given African-American won't tip a cabbie as well as a white person. whatever



It is not racism if that is his personal experience that well dressed white men tend to give better tips than not so well dressed black men or women.

People of different ethnicities have different values and it shows in how much they tip people. Being after more money is not racist.



_DictionaryGirl_

_DictionaryGirl_

NEWSWIRE

San Diego, CA

JUN 10, 2007 01:05 AM

montestruc said:

_DictionaryGirl_ said:

montestruc said:

I have, often for years in middle and high school been in the unwanted minority at school.



Am I reading this right?



I went to predominantly black schools for middle and high school in Louisiana soon after desegregation hit in the early '70s during which time most of the more well to do parents (white and black) pulled their kids out of public schools over the violence of desegregation in the south at that time. That resulted in defacto white kids being the small minority as those who could afford it pulled their kids out. (More whites could afford to pull the kids out than blacks obviously).

My parents had just started to divorce and my dad had lost his job, ( he went on to start a firm soon after) and anyway from what I knew of both of them pulling me out of it was out of the question.

It was not fun for any of the kids, black or white. Kids carrying guns & knives and such to school is now considered a big deal, it was SOP where I went to school. Several kids were cut up.

Do you understand that?



Loud and clear, as such. I was just thinking that, as a half-Mexican-American white kid myself who has gone to fairly ghetto schools from time to time (albeit sometimes a Catholic private barrio school, though barrio nonetheless) and has watched family members struggle with ethnic (and gender) hurdles, it's funny how I managed to grow up with such wildly different opinions on race and responsibility as you. I'd say it might be generational, but my mama didn't raise no political fools, either. Hmm.

_DictionaryGirl_

_DictionaryGirl_

NEWSWIRE

San Diego, CA

JUN 10, 2007 01:10 AM

oyaji said:

montestruc said:

oyaji said:

montestruc said:

One can also think that maybe the cabby given a large choice of clients is going to go for the one he thinks will tip most, the dude who's outfit screams money loudly is going to get the first ride IMHO. That is not racism, that is a simple money self-interest issue.



It's racism if the cabbie assumes that an African-American won't tip as well as a white person. But, obviously, it's true that any given African-American won't tip a cabbie as well as a white person. whatever



It is not racism if that is his personal experience that well dressed white men tend to give better tips than not so well dressed black men or women.

People of different ethnicities have different values and it shows in how much they tip people. Being after more money is not racist.





How is refusing to provide a service to a person on the basis of that person's race not racist? The "well dressed" thing is just facially neutral means of achieving an illegal result, to use a legal term of art.



I believe it was also a premise of the hilarious 1980s comedy team-up movie Trading Places.

attn_ho

attn_ho

Brooklyn, NY
February 2004

JUN 10, 2007 01:10 AM

damn, how many minoriteis are in this thread? whitey is getting uncomfortable! you guys are taking OVER!

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