NEWS: China Wins War Against River

China, developing or not, has some surprisingly progressive plans for renewable energy:

http://www.worldwatch.org/node/4691

The US (and other heavyweight champion polluters) should take note.

They're not quite there yet, but are projected to overtake the U.S. by about 2008/2009.

You can come to my moon colony.

+1

I think that was silly and points more to the imprecise use of language than anything else.

The majority of people who are concerned with environmental issues have an implied for us tacked on to their Save the planet! refrain. We would like to maintain the ecology of the planet such that it is conducive to human life.

While pointing out the distinction between what's implied and what's actually said might make for a good joke poking fun at humanity's self-importance, it ultimately isn't the point.

Yes. Perhaps the West could help by providing designs at cost? That would avoid the necessity to build old-style infrastructure.

The biggest argument against carbon dioxide emission is not climate change. It's acidification of the oceans. The planet is not fine.

Bear in mind, also, that irradiation can happen by removal of shielding. The ozone layer, for instance.

Hear, hear!

I'm a journalist who has been visiting China in the course of doing my job a couple of times a year since 2003. I write about industrial manufacturing, and environmental regulations are a key part of what I write about. When I go to China, I tour production facilities, speak with Chinese regulatory officials, etc.

Everything that Yummy is saying is correct. China's government is, in effect, building an entire modern economy (in one of the largest, and the most populous, countries on the planet) virtually from scratch. The enormity of this project cannot be overstated. The project is moving at break-neck speed, but even at that speed, as Yummy alluded to, at this point only about 1% of China - mostly along the east coast -- has been overhauled, while the rest remains in communist-era dilapidation. It's very weird; it's like China is two countries right now - the overhauled 1% and the unoverhauled 99% - it's like night and day.

Much of the infrastructural overhaul and industrial development, generally speaking, does indeed, from what I've seen, target strict environmental standards, and much of it is actually quite state-of-the-art - I've seen environmental protection technologies there that are more sophisticated than some anywhere else on the planet. But again, China's economic modernization project is a huge one that has really only just begun.

China's government has to pull off this incredible undertaking (which involves, as a less-than-ideal byproduct, the inevitable creation of vast wealth disparities within the population) while managing to keep all its citizens supportive of its efforts (i.e., major uprisings would complicate things) and the government has 1.3 billion mouths to feed. It's a very volatile situation. The Yangtze river is a critical artery for Chinese commerce, development and industrial production.

In Western countries like the US, people have the luxury of demanding, and sometimes getting, pretty, clean rivers to look at and play in and nourish surrounding ecosystems with. But in China, to put it bluntly, if China's government deems it necessary to pollute a river in order to pull off the massive task it has before it, well, it's just going to do that. And frankly (and this is something I think a lot of people in Western countries don't fully appreciate yet) China can do whatever it wants. China is really in the drivers' seat here; it's holding all the cards. If China's government wants to have a polluted Yangtze, and the world doesn't like it, China is perfectly situated to say, "tough shit." And the world has no choice but to accept it.

Hell, just think about how long China has stonewalled international pressure to float its currency; maybe that will put it in perspective.

You're absolutely right about the current state of that nation. I had the opportunity last summer to re-trace the entire Long March route, a journey that wound through a LOT of that nation that the West seems to be completely unaware of. China is a beautiful, fascinating place, to be sure. It is a land of innumerable seeming contradictions, where the ultra-modern and the truly ancient seem to, for now at least, have forged a peaceful (if not altogether comfortable) co-existence.

I have trouble imagining that any country on Earth could have progressed as far as China has, as fast as it has, and virtually from scratch. No, the results haven't always been pretty, just as the above article outlines. Yet, by all indications the Chinese government is finally becoming aware of its growing ecological problem and is taking steps towards addressing the impending crisis. No, the water isn't drinkable straight from the tap ANYWHERE in that country, but nobody seems to mind. It's just another fact of life that everyone seems comfortable dealing with.

In short, the Chinese seem to know what they're doing. It's their problem; let them deal with it.

Oh, and Yummy: Shanghai and Beijing are "tiny"??? In comparison to what?? Shaoshan is a small city. Yen'an is a small city. Shanghai and Beijing are GIGANTIC.

They may be huge cities, but they account for only about 2.5% of China's population and 0.0025% of its geographical area. In that context, yes, they're tiny.

well said. that sounds like an excellent trip you took. yeah, i'm fascinated by that place. i'm trying to work it out so i can move there and work from there; but it's tricky, especially since i'm trying to do it on a skeletal budget. maybe by the end of this year ...