Boards > Current Events > NEWS: Latest News from the War on Women

substitute

New Lenox, IL

August 2004

MAR 29, 2007 05:00 PM

Look at it this way regardless of how much you have to pay, whether it's 15 bucks 20 bucks, or whatever regardless if you have insurance. In the long run you're still paying more for that drug anyway.

If you have insurance like myself I pay 80 a month for insurance. So if I was a woman and I used my insurance only for birth control pills and never went to the doctor. I have to 15 dollars for the pills i'm still paying $1040.00 a year just for birth control pills.

MarcyBeth

Ocala, FL

July 2006

MAR 29, 2007 05:05 PM

NickFaust said:
It is not at all a bizarre idea in the context of how you manage your personal life. When transformed into social policy however, it amounts to "fuck the poor." That is, if the poor can't afford reliable forms of contraception they should just be abstinent or use less reliable forms of contraception..

The net result of this "policy" - demonstrated again and again in both modern and pre-modern cultures - is that poor people have higher birth rates, greater costs associated with those birthrates, less resources for things such as education and training and thus are more likely to remain poor over generations. In short they are "fucked" get it.

I am just not clear if you really don't get this or you just don't care about it.

now i understand the point of what you have been saying. it was sounding much different with all your rudeness and disdain.

NickFaust

USA

April 2004

MAR 29, 2007 05:05 PM

DarkBlueMarcy said:

NickFaust said:

DarkBlueMarcy said:

NickFaust said:
More bullshit. Do you deny that this is your position? Do you deny that you have said that people who are too poor to afford hormonal contraception should be abstinent or use less reliable forms of contraception?

my position is not "fuck the poor", nick. while you may infer that because you want so badly for me to be the perfect replica of the conservative christian moralist so you can e-bash me, it's just not the case.

and it's only "more bullshit" because i called you on careless assumptions and mistakes you've made while attacking me.

I don't want you to be anything. I want you to clearly state your position.

You called me on one statement. You said middle class I said poor. Fact is you were bemoaning the fact that you were being fucked by your own free market perspective, socioeconomic class aside.

And "fuck the poor" is not an inference. It is the practical impact of your perspective .

And it is bullshit because it is bullshit. You are dancing around the fact that you have said what I have said you have said which is that health care and medical services specifically in this case hormonal contraceptives should only be available to those who can afford them.

i think medicine that is vital for an illness or injury should be available for everyone at a cost they can afford. i do not feel that birth control pills fall under this category. neither should viagra, or the like.

could i be ANY more simple, clear, and concise?

Yeah, its clear. Fucked up, but clear.

You have created a false dichotomy between hormonal contraceptives and other forms of medication and have based your philosophy on the belief that it is real.

If a person needs a medication - that is if their physician recommends the use of a medication that enables them to deal with the functioning of their body in a manner that facilitates their capacity to be productive in pursuit of their life goals - that medication should be available to that person at a price they can afford. The social implications of this is that it improves the productivity of our society.

If this means government subsidy, then that is what should be done.

MarcyBeth

Ocala, FL

July 2006

MAR 29, 2007 05:08 PM

NickFaust said:

Yeah, its clear. Fucked up, but clear.

You have created a false dichotomy between hormonal contraceptives and other forms of medication and have based your philosophy on the belief that it is real.

If a person needs a medication - that is if their physician recommends the use of a medication that enables them to deal with the functioning of their body in a manner that facilitates their capacity to be productive in pursuit of their life goals - that medication should be available to that person at a price they can afford. The social implications of this is that it improves the productivity of our society.

If this means government subsidy, then that is what should be done.

and i'm now aware of how you stand on the issue.

MarcyBeth

Ocala, FL

July 2006

MAR 29, 2007 05:09 PM

we've also hit 30 pages, which is, you know, cool and all.

Wendy

SUICIDEGIRL

Israel

MAR 29, 2007 05:16 PM

DarkBlueMarcy said:

NickFaust said:

DarkBlueMarcy said:

NickFaust said:
More bullshit. Do you deny that this is your position? Do you deny that you have said that people who are too poor to afford hormonal contraception should be abstinent or use less reliable forms of contraception?

my position is not "fuck the poor", nick. while you may infer that because you want so badly for me to be the perfect replica of the conservative christian moralist so you can e-bash me, it's just not the case.

and it's only "more bullshit" because i called you on careless assumptions and mistakes you've made while attacking me.

I don't want you to be anything. I want you to clearly state your position.

You called me on one statement. You said middle class I said poor. Fact is you were bemoaning the fact that you were being fucked by your own free market perspective, socioeconomic class aside.

And "fuck the poor" is not an inference. It is the practical impact of your perspective .

And it is bullshit because it is bullshit. You are dancing around the fact that you have said what I have said you have said which is that health care and medical services specifically in this case hormonal contraceptives should only be available to those who can afford them.

i think medicine that is vital for an illness or injury should be available for everyone at a cost they can afford. i do not feel that birth control pills fall under this category. neither should viagra, or the like.

could i be ANY more simple, clear, and concise?

how the fuck can you claim to know what is and isn't vital? are you a doctor?

i'm really curious to know what you do think is vital. Xanax? Adderal? Blood pressure medication? Insulin? Oxycontin? Allegra? Valtrex? Do you even know what all of these things are? Seeing as how medications (birth control included) can potentially alleviate a plethora of symptoms for a plethora of conditions in patients who have a variety of things wrong with them (some of which you might consider "vital," and some that you might not), how could you ever determine such a ridiculous thing?

I also listed quite a few of the debilitating factors that contribute to why many women are prescribed to oral contraceptives. did you read that?

MarcyBeth

Ocala, FL

July 2006

MAR 29, 2007 05:31 PM

Wendy said:
how the fuck can you claim to know what is and isn't vital? are you a doctor?

i'm really curious to know what you do think is vital. Xanax? Adderal? Blood pressure medication? Insulin? Oxycontin? Allegra? Valtrex? Do you even know what all of these things are? Seeing as how medications (birth control included) can potentially alleviate a plethora of symptoms for a plethora of conditions in patients who have a variety of things wrong with them (some of which you might consider "vital," and some that you might not), how could you ever determine such a ridiculous thing?

I also listed quite a few of the debilitating factors that contribute to why many women are prescribed to oral contraceptives. did you read that?

like i stated pages ago, there are exceptions to everything. i have no problem with exceptions. i just "understand" why it isn't covered. that's all.

if every medication including BC pills and viagra was free to everyone and we could all roll around in all the medication we could ever need or want, it would be fan-fucking-tastic. but the world isn't roses and butterflies. maybe one day it will be, but i seriously doubt it.

oh, on another strangely related note, the medical plan episode of "the office" just came on.

atomicant

Portland, OR

June 2003

MAR 29, 2007 05:39 PM

DarkBlueMarcy said:
dude, everything i can possibly say on this subject of the BC pills has been exhausted.

i still see no real defense except 'this is what i feel is right'. that is not an argument. that is a statement of beliefs, and holds little place in a forum for debate and discussion.

i agree that it is irrelevant. but, like many of the threads here, they fan out to an array of topics that just loosely hold on to the topic at hand.

great. and?

i am not a neo-conservative quasi-christian who is set out to moralize the world. i stand for some conservative beliefs, some christian values, and a basic sense of morality. i'm not an extremist, and i've stated that many, many, MANY times. an extremist would say that contraceptives are immoral as a whole, sex should be saved for marriage, and that under no circumstances should abortion be legal. all of these discussions have come up in this thread, and i have expressed none of these views.

and as far as the section about helping the unfortunate for a month, a year, and so on... if everyone in the world had that mindset, no one would help anyone. "oh, who cares if an earthquake destroyed a city - i only have a day or two to help with the cleanup effort, so i'm just not going to go." sometimes people can't offer 34 years of service to someone. but i think offering even a day of support says a lot about a person and actually does some good, especially if they could have just as easily stayed inside all day and played their xbox 360.

i agree, but at no point did i say you shouldn't help out within your community or the larger community of humanity. where i take offense is when you continually parade around your 'experiences' as some sort of justification for you holding a percieved moral high ground with which to sneer down on the rest of us ignorat, uncaring, soulless plebes. i'm sure many of the people on this board are active and vocal members of many communities, who make large contributions to their localities. but have any of them tried to instill a sense of inadequacy and guilt in others by stating (and re-stating) their actions? no. and if that's not what you meant to do, i apologize. it sure sounded like it.

i'm sorry, darkbluemarcy, i'm sure you are a shining example of humanity and a joy to be around (and i really mean that with all sincerity), but you have not presented yourself as a very productive participant in this discussion. i'm sorry you've taken a lot of flak for what you stand for, but i feel that you haven't done much to stop or even slow the flow of logic and reasoning that is being directed at you.

again, all i ask is for a simple, consise, and direct defense to your stated position on this subject.

Wendy

SUICIDEGIRL

Israel

MAR 29, 2007 05:42 PM

DarkBlueMarcy said:

Wendy said:
how the fuck can you claim to know what is and isn't vital? are you a doctor?

i'm really curious to know what you do think is vital. Xanax? Adderal? Blood pressure medication? Insulin? Oxycontin? Allegra? Valtrex? Do you even know what all of these things are? Seeing as how medications (birth control included) can potentially alleviate a plethora of symptoms for a plethora of conditions in patients who have a variety of things wrong with them (some of which you might consider "vital," and some that you might not), how could you ever determine such a ridiculous thing?

I also listed quite a few of the debilitating factors that contribute to why many women are prescribed to oral contraceptives. did you read that?

like i stated pages ago, there are exceptions to everything. i have no problem with exceptions. i just "understand" why it isn't covered. that's all.

if every medication including BC pills and viagra was free to everyone and we could all roll around in all the medication we could ever need or want, it would be fan-fucking-tastic. but the world isn't roses and butterflies. maybe one day it will be, but i seriously doubt it.

oh, on another strangely related note, the medical plan episode of "the office" just came on.

you just said above this that you don't agree that medications such as birth control and viagra should be available for everyone at a cost they can afford. you aren't saying that you "understand" why it isn't covered. you are saying that you agree that it isn't covered. there is a difference. can you not see that?

If the medication that people require to live less painful, more productive, active lives as US citizens was available, at a low cost, to those who needed it, wouldn't that make you happy? It would be fan-fucking-tastic, right? Right?

then why did you post this....

i think medicine that is vital for an illness or injury should be available for everyone at a cost they can afford. i do not feel that birth control pills fall under this category. neither should viagra, or the like.

and then ask if you could be any more clear or concise?

MarcyBeth

Ocala, FL

July 2006

MAR 29, 2007 05:44 PM

atomicharlie said:
i agree, but at no point did i say you shouldn't help out within your community or the larger community of humanity. where i take offense is when you continually parade around your 'experiences' as some sort of justification for you holding a percieved moral high ground with which to sneer down on the rest of us ignorat, uncaring, soulless plebes. i'm sure many of the people on this board are active and vocal members of many communities, who make large contributions to their localities. but have any of them tried to instill a sense of inadequacy and guilt in others by stating (and re-stating) their actions? no. and if that's not what you meant to do, i apologize. it sure sounded like it.

i stated those things when asked by another member about them. i did not bring them up out of thin air. i was asked, and i responded.

atomicant

Portland, OR

June 2003

MAR 29, 2007 05:45 PM

DarkBlueMarcy said:

i think medicine that is vital for an illness or injury should be available for everyone at a cost they can afford. i do not feel that birth control pills fall under this category. neither should viagra, or the like.

could i be ANY more simple, clear, and concise?

i guess i should have read all the way through before i responded.

that is a simple and concise response. but i ask you one question, who should choose what is vital for an illness or injury? there are any number of illnesses that don't require medication, but make the lives of those living with them much easier and productive. where do we draw the line?

atomicant

Portland, OR

June 2003

MAR 29, 2007 05:46 PM

DarkBlueMarcy said:

atomicharlie said:
i agree, but at no point did i say you shouldn't help out within your community or the larger community of humanity. where i take offense is when you continually parade around your 'experiences' as some sort of justification for you holding a percieved moral high ground with which to sneer down on the rest of us ignorat, uncaring, soulless plebes. i'm sure many of the people on this board are active and vocal members of many communities, who make large contributions to their localities. but have any of them tried to instill a sense of inadequacy and guilt in others by stating (and re-stating) their actions? no. and if that's not what you meant to do, i apologize. it sure sounded like it.

i stated those things when asked by another member about them. i did not bring them up out of thin air. i was asked, and i responded.

well said, but i still stand by my initial position that your method of stating them was condescending and rude.

MarcyBeth

Ocala, FL

July 2006

MAR 29, 2007 05:48 PM

wendy, to be completely and utterly honest, this thread has made so many twists and turns that i'm not sure what i've said and when i've said it and in reference to what.

in the broad scheme of things, it doesn't really matter. us sitting here dissecting what i said or didn't say isn't helping anyone anywhere.

let's just let it go and move on. you can think i'm a batshit lunatic if you'd like. i'm okay with that.

MarcyBeth

Ocala, FL

July 2006

MAR 29, 2007 05:49 PM

atomicharlie said:

DarkBlueMarcy said:

i think medicine that is vital for an illness or injury should be available for everyone at a cost they can afford. i do not feel that birth control pills fall under this category. neither should viagra, or the like.

could i be ANY more simple, clear, and concise?

i guess i should have read all the way through before i responded.

that is a simple and concise response. but i ask you one question, who should choose what is vital for an illness or injury? there are any number of illnesses that don't require medication, but make the lives of those living with them much easier and productive. where do we draw the line?

exactly. slippery slope. glad i'm not the one deciding.

MarcyBeth

Ocala, FL

July 2006

MAR 29, 2007 05:50 PM

atomicharlie said:

DarkBlueMarcy said:

atomicharlie said:
i agree, but at no point did i say you shouldn't help out within your community or the larger community of humanity. where i take offense is when you continually parade around your 'experiences' as some sort of justification for you holding a percieved moral high ground with which to sneer down on the rest of us ignorat, uncaring, soulless plebes. i'm sure many of the people on this board are active and vocal members of many communities, who make large contributions to their localities. but have any of them tried to instill a sense of inadequacy and guilt in others by stating (and re-stating) their actions? no. and if that's not what you meant to do, i apologize. it sure sounded like it.

i stated those things when asked by another member about them. i did not bring them up out of thin air. i was asked, and i responded.

well said, but i still stand by my initial position that your method of stating them was condescending and rude.

alright. i apologize if that was the case.

Wendy

SUICIDEGIRL

Israel

MAR 29, 2007 05:53 PM

DarkBlueMarcy said:
wendy, to be completely and utterly honest, this thread has made so many twists and turns that i'm not sure what i've said and when i've said it and in reference to what.

in the broad scheme of things, it doesn't really matter. us sitting here dissecting what i said or didn't say isn't helping anyone anywhere.

let's just let it go and move on. you can think i'm a batshit lunatic if you'd like. i'm okay with that.

so basically, you don't want to continue because you don't even remember what the fuck you said and, through your recent bout of back peddling, you are beginning to contradict yourself.

we can end it here if you please. but yeah, you're a batshit lunatic. not too bright, either. toodles darling!

MarcyBeth

Ocala, FL

July 2006

MAR 29, 2007 05:56 PM

Wendy said:

DarkBlueMarcy said:
wendy, to be completely and utterly honest, this thread has made so many twists and turns that i'm not sure what i've said and when i've said it and in reference to what.

in the broad scheme of things, it doesn't really matter. us sitting here dissecting what i said or didn't say isn't helping anyone anywhere.

let's just let it go and move on. you can think i'm a batshit lunatic if you'd like. i'm okay with that.

so basically, you don't want to continue because you don't even remember what the fuck you said and, through your recent bout of back peddling, you are beginning to contradict yourself.

we can end it here if you please. but yeah, you're a batshit lunatic. not too bright, either. toodles darling!

hearts!

atomicant

Portland, OR

June 2003

MAR 29, 2007 05:56 PM

DarkBlueMarcy said:
exactly. slippery slope. glad i'm not the one deciding.

you clearly were never on a forensics team, were you?

the problem here is that you have made a very broad and sweeping statement, using (at least to me) a tone of prose that implies a high level of moral and ethical superiority. as most of us here consider ourselves at least as smart as the average bear, this comes across as very cocky and a little bit antagonistic. and when you are confronted by (what most people, i would hope) logic and reasoning, you simply don't even make any concessions or defenses. and then when you finally state what i consider to be a rational point, you completely puss out on the deal!

how easy is it to hold a belief that is utterly contradictory to many, many people's own moral and ethical code, and then shirk off the responsibility of enforcing it???!?! this is, in my own humble opinion, the definition of trolling! you are simply looking for high emotionally valued responses!

why?

MarcyBeth

Ocala, FL

July 2006

MAR 29, 2007 06:02 PM

atomicharlie said:

DarkBlueMarcy said:
exactly. slippery slope. glad i'm not the one deciding.

you clearly were never on a forensics team, were you?

the problem here is that you have made a very broad and sweeping statement, using (at least to me) a tone of prose that implies a high level of moral and ethical superiority. as most of us here consider ourselves at least as smart as the average bear, this comes across as very cocky and a little bit antagonistic. and when you are confronted by (what most people, i would hope) logic and reasoning, you simply don't even make any concessions or defenses. and then when you finally state what i consider to be a rational point, you completely puss out on the deal!

how easy is it to hold a belief that is utterly contradictory to many, many people's own moral and ethical code, and then shirk off the responsibility of enforcing it???!?! this is, in my own humble opinion, the definition of trolling! you are simply looking for high emotionally valued responses!

why?

i have an opinion. i have many opinions on many many different subjects that i'm not actively involved in on a daily basis. i'm glad i'm not the person deciding because that would be a hard line to draw. it's why i'm a real estate appraiser and not a politician. i'm not trolling, i just state my opinions (perhaps a bit too dramatically at times), and people tend to go apeshit. i'm a dramatic person. i have my degree in theatre. it's just the way i am. *shrugs* it doesn't change the fact that i'm being honest and they are my honest opinions. i'm not out to berate or offend anyone. obviously people will disagree with me, and that's okay.

atomicant

Portland, OR

June 2003

MAR 29, 2007 06:06 PM

DarkBlueMarcy said:
i have an opinion. i have many opinions on many many different subjects that i'm not actively involved in on a daily basis. i'm glad i'm not the person deciding because that would be a hard line to draw. it's why i'm a real estate appraiser and not a politician. i'm not trolling, i just state my opinions (perhaps a bit too dramatically at times), and people tend to go apeshit. i'm a dramatic person. i have my degree in theatre. it's just the way i am. *shrugs*

*bangs head against wall.*

wow. your willfull ignorance of the (unspoken, mind you) guidelines for debate and discussion astound me. and yes, you are trolling. i'm sorry. while i will be the first to agree this particular board is a pool full of coke-addled, blood-crazed, half-starved hammerhead sharks, you really can't expect that what you have been doing for the past 15 or so pages wasn't going to get the goat of at least a few members?

puh-lease. even you can't be that dim.

MarcyBeth

Ocala, FL

July 2006

MAR 29, 2007 06:10 PM

atomicharlie said:

DarkBlueMarcy said:
i have an opinion. i have many opinions on many many different subjects that i'm not actively involved in on a daily basis. i'm glad i'm not the person deciding because that would be a hard line to draw. it's why i'm a real estate appraiser and not a politician. i'm not trolling, i just state my opinions (perhaps a bit too dramatically at times), and people tend to go apeshit. i'm a dramatic person. i have my degree in theatre. it's just the way i am. *shrugs*

*bangs head against wall.*

wow. your willfull ignorance of the (unspoken, mind you) guidelines for debate and discussion astound me. and yes, you are trolling. i'm sorry. while i will be the first to agree this particular board is a pool full of coke-addled, blood-crazed, half-starved hammerhead sharks, you really can't expect that what you have been doing for the past 15 or so pages wasn't going to get the goat of at least a few members?

puh-lease. even you can't be that dim.

people really like the word "trolling" here. sheesh.

and whether or not a particular post bothers people isn't really my problem. i wasn't being racist or rude or breaking any rule. i'm not really sure what you want from me.

atomicant

Portland, OR

June 2003

MAR 29, 2007 06:11 PM

DarkBlueMarcy said:
people really like the word "trolling" here. sheesh.

are you fuckin' serious?

this is so almost flagworthy, i shit you not. and you have just proved my point.

thank you, i guess...

MarcyBeth

Ocala, FL

July 2006

MAR 29, 2007 06:14 PM

atomicharlie said:

DarkBlueMarcy said:
people really like the word "trolling" here. sheesh.

are you fuckin' serious?

this is so almost flagworthy, i shit you not. and you have just proved my point.

thank you, i guess...

*THAT* is flag-worthy? what the hell? we're just having a conversation. half the threads in this board start out with inflation and end up talking about flying kites or something. i'd hardly call it flag-worthy.

Shal

Los Angeles, CA

October 2002

MAR 29, 2007 06:18 PM

This thread stopped making any semblence of sense or having any sort of worth pages and pages ago. Congrats, guys, we're all dumber now.

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New Lenox, IL

August 2004

MAR 29, 2007 05:00 PM

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July 2006

MAR 29, 2007 05:05 PM

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MAR 29, 2007 05:05 PM

Ocala, FL

July 2006

MAR 29, 2007 05:08 PM

Ocala, FL

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MAR 29, 2007 05:09 PM

SUICIDEGIRL

Israel

MAR 29, 2007 05:16 PM

Ocala, FL

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MAR 29, 2007 05:31 PM

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MAR 29, 2007 05:39 PM

SUICIDEGIRL

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Israel

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