do i really have to vote?

they aren't only two parties.....only two parties in the news...

there are lots of independants running

Parties that rarely see more than 1% of the popular vote (at least on a national level) and no electoral college representation at all. Parties so rarely successful that only one member of each branch of the current Congress is independent and none of them have party affiliations other than Republican or Democrat.

They exist, but with the electoral system as it stands they may as well not.

The frustrating thing is that at least a portion of that is due to people's own defeatist attitudes. I have to wonder what kind of numbers the smaller parties could get if people let go of the "they can't win so it doesn't matter" crap. I'm not saying that magically makes them viable, just that it makes me wonder.

Me too, but the potential costs of diverting votes from the Democrats right now outweigh my desire to at least attempt to experiment.

i disagree with that more than i can express.....

Only just last year, in canada, an independant MP's vote became the most watched and talked about moment in canadian politics.
Just because the opportunity hasn't arose in the states....doesn't mean it never will. With electoral college's or not....every vote counts. Their number may be small, and therefore not able to exude real influence in washington....but when the two main parties are deadlocked, who's vote's do you think they turn to?
It's tragic to think that thought process exists...
Change doesn't only happen at the top.... There are many offices up for election, that affect your daily lives at a local level.....and who's influence can find it's way to the top.
They get 1% of the popular vote, because they are not allowed to have a voice, and the people don't give it to them...

aside from that....i was addressing the fact that he said he hated both parties.
So if he hates both the main parties equally, he should spend his vote on an independant or alternative party that he does agree with.
Reguardless if you think he's throwing away his vote.

While i find it would be a shame if he didn't....I would rather see him not vote, than vote for someone he does not support.

(oh, and i realise that tone is not easily picked up in these threads...but i am in no way being hostile)

but i completely agree with this

You have to understand, if I'd been eligible to vote in 2000 (I missed my chance by about nine months), I would have voted for Nader. I absolutely support the smaller parties, and I very much wish that they were more viable on a national level, but they just aren't, and I don't see that changing as long as we have fossilized institutions like the electoral college, can only indicate support for one candidate, and small parties are consistently financially outclassed not just by a bit but by orders of magnitude. I'll vote my conscience if I think I can do so without risking turning America over to Bush's ilk, but I don't know if that day will come anytime soon. (Back in 2000, I had no conception of how awful a president Bush was going to be. I didn't like him, but...)

I am aware of the incompetence in the current administration.

The evidence suggests that TR cost Taft electoral votes. Wilson would have been just another Jackass in the historical footnotes had there been no bullmoose party.

Nader was not responsible for the debacle in Florida. Furthermore, people would have voted for other "third parties" were there no greens. We'd have websites like "redsdontrun.com" pleading socialists not to run in the 2004 election.

Anyway. Nader did not screw up Florida's voting process. Nader did not sit the bench in Bush v. Gore.

Anyway, you can all relax, because tomorrow, no one's voting third party anyway, so my "Vote your conscience!" Rah-Rahs don't mean shit.

In my state, the Greens will have no effect on the elections, and they're not running everywhere anyway. Not a single third party will be elected except the incumbents. I expect similar results across the nation. Right now, regardless of what I say, polarization is king.

Who cares if they win or not, if people don't show up and support them anyway then they'll never win. The Liberal Democrats are a serious third party here because people actually vote for them even though they've never won a general ellection they have still started to win a fair few seats in parliment. Ultimately you should vote for who best represents you be it republican, democrat, communist or KKK and if they all equally suck then just don't bother.

I agree.
This exactly how i feel.
To us, the need to remove Bush and other Republican goonies, is far more prodigious, than actually voting for someone we fully support.
Right now, your most important issue, is removing republicans from office...so you cast your vote in the most effective way possible, to accomplish that. The same as what i would do...

But for someone who sees as much evil in the Democrats, as they do in the Republicans.....independant is an excellent choice.
Because at least it gets them to the voting booth, where they are present to vote on important bills, that have nothing to do with office.