NEWS: Lies and Exaggerations Fill Stem Cell Debate

Just as I detest people who have zero comprehension skills. If you were reading AND comprehending - you'd know that I wasn't 100% sure of my opinion.

The embryo doesn't develop since it's outside of a woman's body. It'll just sit around until it's eventually thrown away (or it'll spoil if they don't keep it on ice). The life has already been created for a purpose that had nothing whatsoever to do with stem cells, and it's going to be killed just the same whether it's used as a stem cell source or not.

The only non-hypocritical position for the government would be to either support stem-cell research or else outlawing the disposal of excess embryos from fertility clinics. I mean they are human lives after all, and isn't every life sacred?

(BTW this is the life in question. Don't you just want to pick it up and cuddle it?)

In my first post, I said this,

"I do support the right to abortions - maybe they could develop a way to use the aborted fetuses for stell cell research. At least it wouldn't be a total waste."

I don't know why you're aguing a point that we both agree on. But continue on.

Grahf....what? They don't make blankets in that size?

TheGringo, if eggs and sperms are going to get killed anyway, why not use them for stem cell reseach also?

Michael Kinsley has a really good and clear piece on this whole issue up at Slate that's well worth reading.

i wonder if i can sell my spermies for stem cell research. anybody want to go to the lab and make stem cells with me?

Agreed. I was referring to the fact that it would be useless to drop "those on death row" into a blender and hit puree (for the purposes of stem cell research). That is not how it works. It just seemed like an odd point, considering an adult could simply donate a small amount of bone marrow to produce "adult stem cell lines"

The embryos in question are 2-8 cells in size... they are grown in a cell culture flask... no one bothers trying to remove just a few cells from an embryo... no need to be careful because they embryos would be thrown away anyway. None the less, they are not actually "killed" either, they are just grown in a flask.

Gringo, you have failed to acknowledge the fact that embyros are not being produced in this so called "human farm." As had been said, the embryos are being produced in fertility clinics around the country, and then *discarded* after a certain amount of time. Why not use these leftovers for research instead of putting them in the trash? Also there are so many fertility clinics around the country from which these embryos could be salvaged, and thus there's no need for these "farms." Although, if you were to get technical about it, fertility clinics would count as human farms anyway, right?

Since the article that started thsi discussion was dealing with mistakes, we may as well look at the mistakes there.

For instance, the President has not "tied the hands" of any scientist wishing to look in on the matter. In fact, he has allowed and even provided funds for very limited ESC research. Just not very much. The state of Califnornia, however, did vote to use tax funds for ESC research. It is worth noting that California is a very democratic state; not to say that is is "blue," but rather, the voters deal with many more intiatives than the voters in other states.

Beyond that, though, there is very little tax money going to it.

There is, as noted above, a great deal of private money is going into ESC reserach. There is a huge program at Harvard, it has been going on for two years. As have many other programs, and there will no doubt be more.

The issue of public money is interesting. By "public money," mean private investments in stocks (or servicing debt) or companies publically traded on excahnges. I was involved in this a few years ago, and there were about a dozen publically traded companies involved in ESC research. They were all penny stocks, with nothing but a story, and no way to make a profit.

There are many biotech companies that one would think have jumped on, and it is interesting that they have not. Perhpas the specialization of these companies precludes them from research; more likely it is the lack of any profits from the reserach. More intersting is that companies like Merck, Pfizer, Johnson and Johnson, and the other pharmas are not interested. They have the capital, facilties, robotics, and computers to really have a chance at developing something from ESC research. They do not need immediate rewards. Also, they have some of the best scientists in the world working for them.

It is not they are worried about a hostile response. If there was a profit there, they would go for it. The pharmas have the mouths and the lawyers to kick the FRC's or anybody else's ass. Plus, the majority of the public supports ESC research; they love technology they do not understand. So do I.

Rather, the reason that the scientists at the pharmas have advised the boards to stay away is that they, like many of thier peers, are skeptical of any benefits ESC research can provide.

Maybe we will live to see the benefits reaped by the private money that has supported ESC research. Maybe we will see cold fusion. Sometimes, a very promising theory just does not work. A few years ago, it was genetic manipulation. Now, it is ESC.

I hope that someday, it will be possible to accomplish something with them.

To say that the President has eliminated ESC reserach, is either illinformed or a deliberate lie. Further, I would far rather use any rounds I pay for with my tax dollars on cancer or heart disease rather than a pie in the sky.

Apologies for any spelling errors and typos.

So do you use like a soda chaser after you're done with the flask or just do straight shots?

With the death row comment - I guess I was really referring to performing scientific experiences on them as I feel they have a debt to pay to society anyway.

As I admitted MANY times in early posts, I don't know much about stem cell research but two of you have actually shed some light and I thank you.

I was under the impression that they just set up some facility with the sole purpose of producing embryos and then tossing out whatever they don't need. If it's from a fertility clinic - I guess that makes it different. Not that there aren't already too many fucking people in this world. Again, I never disagreed with it to the point I'd protest or whatever. It was just an initial opinion but it wasn't well-formed enough to where I'd go out an protest or anything.

Thanks again for explaining things without a shitty attitude.

Thank you for summarising. It's been so difficult to filter out the truth and fact from opinion and regurgitations that I've mostly tuned out the whole subject.

And I doubt that impression just came to you out of the blue one day. This thread's title is "Lies and Exaggerations Fill Stem Cell Debate" after all, and I suspect you've been the victim of some.

Could you possibly just plug your ears and hum then?

Jesus.

Straight shots

You want people to have informed opinions before posting them to the internets? Why do you hate our freedoms?