NEWS: Now Bush Has Now Pissed Off Everyone Alive

Intelligently dispute any point that was made and maybe I'll listen to what you have to say.

Someone's definitely out of touch, and I think that it's you, drummer.

Next time you wade in to contribute, focus on the word..."contribute." Attacking someone's position because of who they are or what they believe rings of Karl Rove tactics and the last polls suggest that nearly 70% of America and 80% of the world has tired of that rhetoric.

aegis has posted well-researched, insightful content to the site demonstrating he is does not subscribe to doom or gloom. Moreover, he has never confirmed the level of foolishness you managed to confer on yourself with a single post.

Our taxes aren't high because of illegal immigration.
Our taxes are high because of bear patrol.

.

Anyway, I only saw a little bit of the president's address. My girlfriend shut it off on the grounds that it was a huge turn off while we were making out. She really doesn't like the guy, and it had never occured to me prior to then just how amazingly similar to a monkey he DOES look. People were really right about that one.

In any case, the bits I saw seemed like a case of typical political speak: "this is what needs to be done, this is what will be done," but with very little talk of HOW it will be done. He declaired a lot of intent, but not many proposed solutions for me to judge. I will say this though: I think his stance is pretty reasonable and I applaud that he isn't simply going the "deport them all" rout. People who suggest his motivations are based on who's funding his campagnes is probably right, but sincerity is not exactly what I expect out of this president in the first place.

There was a funny line about how it would be wrong to exploit people's fear for the sake of one's own personal agenda. I couldn't not laugh at that one.

sorry for double posting:

I think that it's fair to say that illegal immigration is an issue that is artificially inflated in spite of more important things that are being ignored. That is how I often feel about a lot of the hot button issues that pop up and intensify now and again. Abortion for example, I believe recieves too much highly publicized debate (especially considering how many people's minds have ever been changed on that issue) while other things are allowed to be ignored.

However, just as I don't think it's fair to call abortion a non-issue (it's obviously an issue that effects a lot of people), I don't think it's very fair to say it's not worth talking about illegal immigration when there is so much other serious stuff going on in this country right now. If anything, that seems like a diversion tactic to make people stop talking about immigration. The war may be a huge problem, but it doesn't nullify the issue of illegal immigration.

and that's all republican jesus has to say on the subject.

So you're saying intelligent people CAN'T disagree on illegal immigration? There are no legitimate concerns over or arguments against the issue?

Ok, you win, champ.

How very good that must make you feel...the rhetorical equivalent to masturbation.

I don't think he said that, you have every right to post your views, but doing so suggests active participation governed by sincere attempts to avoid the Luftwaffe model of behavior.
Look, if you are going to wade in here and participate, crank up the contribution level and dial down the clichés; we've heard them all.

I like the migrant workers coming here.

They are hard, hard workers, and for the most part they take greater pride in their work. I would prefer it if people were forced to pay them min. wage, because then there wouldn't be all these whiners running around.

"Oh, I can't get a good job picking grapes, doing yardwork, etc..because of all the illegals..."

Forget all the xenophobia and compete with them fairly. I suspect they would still have their jobs, even if people were forced to pay them more.... Why is that?

Also, if you want to be upset with some one, the migrant workers are not at fault here. The companies who hire them illegally, they are the ones that need to be monitored more carefully. Yet, they are not, why is that?

Increasing the border patrol is meaningless. Why not increase the number of investigations that look at companies that hire illegal immigrants?

If this were a "huge, scary, problem", wouldn't that be a more effective method of solving it. Make the penalties for hiring illegals a little more damaging, and conduct more investigations. Put all those border patrol troops on that, and hey presto, migrant workers no longer have good reason to visit, because they can no longer be hired.

Oh shit, wait.. Some local economies partially depend on the "cheap" labor migrant workers offer.....
So, lets just flex our muscles and make it look like we're doing something instead..

The whole illegal immigration issue is a smoke screen.

It has been mixed with the "homeland security" issue by both parties and had a lot of bullshit thrown in for fermentation to get the masses worked up to the point of hysteria. The Globalist powers behind the presidency wants to create a climate of paranoia to further its Brave New World Order (BNWO) agenda. The more the populace feels threatened the more it will turn over its civil liberties for more government "protection," i.e. posting the Nat'l Guard wherever and whenever it sees fit.

A climate of fear is a necessary prerequisite for the government to impose martial law to address the perceived threat. Race riots and an eventual race war is within the scope of strategies of a BNWO agenda. Fomenting of violence between races via the US-Mexico border issue is already taking place. Strong Mexican nationalist groups have proposed a re-acquisition of the territories ceded to the US as a result of the Mexican-American War of 1846-48:
Aztlan

The Globalist agenda for domination is advanced every time an issue is spun to create public hysteria, civil unrest, and widespread fear.

Hear hear. I think this has been one of the most clearheaded posts on the subject.

Don't try to smokescreen us, jerk!

Citizenship is so primitive.

Actually, the entire economic argument for illegal immigration is moot and meaningless for two reasons…

1. If you are in favor of allowing the continuing status quo, based on the economic dependency of the U.S. economy on illegal immigrants…then you are in favor of slave labor, since that is ultimately what these immigrants are subjected to (inhumanly low wages, no health benefits, no protection from work injury, ETC.)

To say we should just let the current illegal immigrants be because our economy is dependent on them is akin to saying, "We need a slave labor force, but since slavery is illegal, they are the next best thing."

2. If you're in favor of allowing amnesty and even guest worker status for illegals then, once they obtain legitimate status, they would be able obtain basic human rights. A good thing morally, but basic human rights means they would then be able to demand decent wages, benefits and workman's protection (since the reason they don't get it now is because of the fear of getting deported if they "make a fuss".)

If they are able to demand a decent wage, benefits and protection…then all the "cheap" labor goes away, and the jobs are no longer the "shit" jobs American's "won't take"…because now they are paying decent wages, bennies, ETC.

Thus, the entire argument is moot.


[Edited on May 17, 2006 12:44AM]

Y U HAET FREEDIM//??

why hasnt a reality show stemmed this whole situation yet

=-> Alecks

The argument is only moot if you assume we're against the next best thing to slavery. While its not my first choice and it doesn't appear especially liberal, coming here to work for subhuman rights seems appealing to some people. Although I haven't researched this subject thoroughy, the fact that people come here suggest its a better alternative than something thats going on in their home country.

thank god all those immigrants eventually become bonafide tweakers or speed dealers themselves because if they were eating instead, california would sink from the weight. that's not an immigration problem.

however, we're an intolerant nation with a problem we cannot stop, even with violence. mexicans come here to escape their battered country just like we all shoot to canada when draft day comes. you don't hear them complaining (maybe it's because we have money to spend in their fine country?)

our real problem with immigration is that there are enough poor people here already and the last thing we need are more impoverished folks that aren't white yet are willing to work ten times as hard in a job that some dope addict hobo STILL thinks is under them.

its strange that bush would even stop this immigration, you'd think he'd want the gap between rich and poor to widen because he's not going to be president for much longer. soon he's just going to be a tycoon living off of the rich people he protected, with his, and his family's asses protected by the secret service FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES!

and lastly, anyone's hatred towards these immigrants is just hurting everyone more. it's like a backwards invisible hand theory. if we all work for the good of the whole, then better things are bound to come to us as individuals. its karma. its life. you're idiots.

so poo on you.

[Edited on May 17, 2006 11:31AM]

All I have to say about this is.....If you are going to come here and work and live...you need to learn how to speak proper English where everyone can understand you clearly....That's all I ask...otherwise I could give a shit...come on over......This is not Mexico not everyone speaks Spanish...

Not everyone speaks "English"

Another reason they have to hurry up and discover real Babelfish..

Outside of that, there is no official language in the US...
As for proper English, I think all legal Americans should be required to learn how to write it and speak it.... Okay, perhaps not proper, maybe just semi-reasonable East LA slang?
While they're at it, perhaps a course or two in basic logic...

Bravo! This is the best argument I've yet to hear for deporting George Bush. Honestly, his diction is really quite atrocious.

Y también su pinche español, habla cómo un puto gringo puñetero, cabrón. ¡Viva México cabrones! ¿Me comprendes, mendes?



[Edited on May 17, 2006 by artdogger]

+1. a very articulate assesment of the situation.