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7/19/08

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stockula

stockula

Anchorage, AK
May 2003

JUL 20, 2008 02:51 PM

It's just amazing to see the persistent pessimism, defeatism, hopelessness and denial Democrats hurled at our military and President Bush. And they were completely, utterly WRONG.

• Democrat Joe Biden, Jan. 2007: "If he surges another 20, 30 [thousand], or whatever number he's going to, into Baghdad, it'll be a tragic mistake."

• Democrat Barack Obama, Jan. 2007: "I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraqis going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse."

• Democrat Hillary Clinton, Jan. 2007: "I cannot support [the] proposed escalation of the war in Iraq."

• Democrat Barack Obama, Jan 2007: "I don't think the president's [surge] strategy is going to work."

• Democrat John Kerry, Feb. 2007: "The simple fact is that sending in over 20,000 additional troops isn't the answer--in fact, it's a tragic mistake. It won't end the violence; it won't provide security; ...it won't turn back the clock and avoid the civil war that is already underway; it won't deter terrorists, who have a completely different agenda; it won't rein in the militias."

• Democrat Dennis Kucinich, Feb. 2007: "It has been proven time and time again that troop surges don't work."

• Democrat Harry Reid, Apr. 2007: "The war is lost... This surge is not accomplishing anything."

• Democrat Christopher Dodd, Apr. 2007: "We don't need a surge of troops in Iraq... there is no military solution in Iraq. To insist upon a surge is wrong."

• Democrat Barack Obama, Jul. 2007: "My assessment is that the surge has not worked."

• Democrat Dick Durbin, Aug. 2007: "By carefully manipulating the statistics, the Bush-Petraeus report will try to persuade us that violence in Iraq is decreasing and thus the surge is working. Even if the figures were right, the conclusion is wrong."

• Democrat Jan Schakowsky, Aug. 2007: "I believe overall the surge is a failure. ...It's clear to me we cannot win..."

• Democrat Joe Biden, Sep. 2007: "We should stop the surge and start bringing our troops home... [When asked whether Iraq closer to political reconciliation than before the surge began, and would continuing the operation stop the killing between Sunnis, Shi'ites and Kurds?] ...The answer to both those questions is no."

• Democrat John Kerry, Sep. 2007: ""The president's escalation ... has failed to achieve its goal of bringing about a resolution of the fundamental conflict between Sunni and Shi'ite."

• Democrat Chris Dodd, Sep. 2007: "It pains me to say that ... the surge tactic is a failure _ and that failure is reconfirmed everyday by unfolding events in Iraq."

• Democrat Barack Obama, Oct. 2007: "[The surge is a] complete failure... Iraq's leaders are not reconciling. They are not achieving political benchmarks."

• Democrat Harry Reid, Nov. 2007: "It is indisputable that the goals of the surge have failed."

• Democrat Joe Biden, Nov. 2007: "This whole notion that the surge is working is fantasy."

• Democrat Nancy Pelosi, Feb. 2008: "There haven't been gains [in Iraq]... The gains have not produced the desired effect, which is the reconciliation of Iraq. This is a failure. This is a failure."

• Democrat Carl Levin, Apr. 2008: "...the purpose of the surge as announced by President Bush last year... has not been achieved"

• Democrat Joe Biden, Apr. 2008: "The purpose of the surge was to bring violence in Iraq down so that its leaders could come together politically. Violence has come down, but the Iraqis have not come together... We Democrats understand that this war must end..."

• Democrat Bill Richardson, Jun. 2008: "[when asked if he was ready to concede that John McCain had been right in proposing the surge, said] "Absolutely not."

FreakPirate

FreakPirate

Calgary, AB
November 2002

JUL 20, 2008 02:56 PM

Saving the lives of American soldiers... bastards.
Spending the billions of dollars currently being wasted on the war on better things... assholes!

BatAttaK

BatAttaK

Seattle, WA
OLD SKOOL

JUL 20, 2008 03:28 PM

Really? Show us how then that the surge has actually worked? If so then perhaps you can call your neo-con buddies and have them do the same thing in Afghanistan...we seem to be getting our asses handed to us over there.

Oninotaki

Oninotaki

Ypsilanti, MI
March 2003

JUL 20, 2008 03:32 PM

You know I always thought that the surge was too small, and would be a smashing if it had only been much much bigger. There are roughly 30,000,000 people in Iraq and 300,000,000 in the states. So why not just conscript 30,000,000 of our people and send them over to Iraq? That way there is one soldier per person in Iraq and we can follow everyone around with a gun pointed at their heads all day and dare them to misbehave. Sounds to me like if we did that not only would the surge be a smashing success but it would wipe out unemployment in the states at the same time. whatever

BlastProcessing

BlastProcessing

Knoxville, TN
OLD SKOOL

JUL 20, 2008 03:45 PM

Link to the original piece, please.

stockula

stockula

Anchorage, AK
May 2003

JUL 20, 2008 04:01 PM

BlastProcessing said:
Link to the original piece, please.



http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2008/07/history-lesson-how-democrats-doubled.html

What's interesting is that Democrats are attacking the idea of drilling and developing domestic oil supplies with the same vehemence that they attacked the Surge: It just won't work, it's a mistake to even try, abandon all hope, we can't do it, surrender Dorothy. What's with this loser attitude?

BlastProcessing

BlastProcessing

Knoxville, TN
OLD SKOOL

JUL 20, 2008 04:04 PM

stockula said:

BlastProcessing said:
Link to the original piece, please.



http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2008/07/history-lesson-how-democrats-doubled.html

What's interesting is that Democrats are attacking the idea of drilling and developing domestic oil supplies with the same vehemence that they attacked the Surge: It just won't work, it's a mistake to even try, abandon all hope, we can't do it, surrender Dorothy. What's with this loser attitude?



I dunno. What's with you and plagiarism?

FreakPirate

FreakPirate

Calgary, AB
November 2002

JUL 20, 2008 04:10 PM

stockula said:

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2008/07/history-lesson-how-democrats-doubled.html

What's interesting is that Democrats are attacking the idea of drilling and developing domestic oil supplies with the same vehemence that they attacked the Surge: It just won't work, it's a mistake to even try, abandon all hope, we can't do it, surrender Dorothy. What's with this loser attitude?



My god... they don't like stupid ideas. How did they ever get involved in the United States government? whatever

stockula

stockula

Anchorage, AK
May 2003

JUL 20, 2008 04:11 PM

BatAttaK said:
Really? Show us how then that the surge has actually worked?



http://michaelyon-online.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=7&Itemid=

If so then perhaps you can call your neo-con buddies and have them do the same thing in Afghanistan...we seem to be getting our asses handed to us over there.



That's what the soldiers seem to want. They are getting bored in Iraq, there's no one to fight

Other 'neo-cons; like Obama have suggested a Surge in Afghanistan after such a success in Iraq.

"The central front in the war on terror is not Iraq, and it never was," said Obama, who has claimed combat brigades needed to battle the Taliban have been diverted to Iraq and vowed to take the fight to "Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan."



Of course, our enemies say the opposite: The real war was for Iraq

Al-Qaeda number two Ayman al-Zawahiri has said that building Iraq as a 'fortress of Islam' is the 'most important duty' for Muslims, in an audio message released according to the SITE monitoring service.



So Obama, again, really doesn't understand what's going on. Lieberman helpfully pointed out the Redeemer of all Mankind wouldn't be able to visit Iraq if we had done what he wanted 18 months ago.





stockula

stockula

Anchorage, AK
May 2003

JUL 20, 2008 04:12 PM

FreakPirate said:

stockula said:

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2008/07/history-lesson-how-democrats-doubled.html

What's interesting is that Democrats are attacking the idea of drilling and developing domestic oil supplies with the same vehemence that they attacked the Surge: It just won't work, it's a mistake to even try, abandon all hope, we can't do it, surrender Dorothy. What's with this loser attitude?



My god... they don't like stupid ideas. How did they ever get involved in the United States government? whatever



How's your province's economy doing lately thanks to oil and gas? Do you think that's 'stupid'?

FreakPirate

FreakPirate

Calgary, AB
November 2002

JUL 20, 2008 04:39 PM

stockula said:

How's your province's economy doing lately thanks to oil and gas? Do you think that's 'stupid'?



It's doing just fine thank you. But see... it actually provides enough oil and gas to make it worthwhile. And the painfully large start up cost has long been paid off.

NarcissistZero

NarcissistZero

Philadelphia, PA
December 2005

JUL 20, 2008 06:46 PM

It's kind of hard not to have a defeatist attitude about Iraq since it was horribly mishandled for years.

First, false evidence and the lack of WMDs.

Second, the horrible Abu Ghraib scandal.

Third, the general mishandling of everything until the surge, the complete fuckery of Rumsfeld. Bad tactics, bad equipment, bad strategy...

Even as a moderate who thinks of defense as one of his conservative-leaning issues, I can't look at Iraq without seeing what a mishandled fuck-up it has been since day one. It's hard to retain a positive attitude after all that bullshit.

I didn't want to go in in the first place, but when we did I tried to be positive... the destruction of a horrible leader, possible democracy, etc.... but years of horrible mistakes has ruined that optimism.

Can you really blame people for just wanting it over?

SockPuppet

SockPuppet

I'm lost
July 2006

JUL 20, 2008 06:49 PM



What the soldiers want really is not the point. Unless you're advocating military rule of the US. Which you probably are, given the general drift of your posts.

ericwine

ericwine

Charlotte Hall, MD
January 2007

JUL 20, 2008 06:59 PM

NarcissistZero said:
It's kind of hard not to have a defeatist attitude about Iraq since it was horribly mishandled for years.

First, false evidence and the lack of WMDs.

Second, the horrible Abu Ghraib scandal.

Third, the general mishandling of everything until the surge, the complete fuckery of Rumsfeld. Bad tactics, bad equipment, bad strategy...

Even as a moderate who thinks of defense as one of his conservative-leaning issues, I can't look at Iraq without seeing what a mishandled fuck-up it has been since day one. It's hard to retain a positive attitude after all that bullshit.

I didn't want to go in in the first place, but when we did I tried to be positive... the destruction of a horrible leader, possible democracy, etc.... but years of horrible mistakes has ruined that optimism.

Can you really blame people for just wanting it over?



AMEN.
The surge actually seems to be working, albeit imperfectly, but it seems like too little too late. The problem is the way they dithered and fucked around beforehand. We were fighting a counterinsurgency war since May 2003, but Petraeus is the first commanding general in Iraq who specialized in that type of warfare. Probably not a coincidence we got him after Rumsfeld left, since Rumsfeld seemed to be trying to fight the kind of war he would've when he was had the same job for President Ford: a land war in central Europe against the Red Hordes.
And while I'm in favor of more oil drilling (though not offshore), I've felt from day one the money spent in Iraq would've been better spent on researching alternative fuels and renewable energy.

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

Kearney, NE
May 2006

JUL 20, 2008 07:34 PM

The surge is only working because al Sadr pulled back his militia, and we all know it. Even Stockula would know it, if he didn't have a biased agenda to fulfill.

felony187

felony187

Denver, CO
June 2007

JUL 20, 2008 07:41 PM

coyotemike said:
The surge is only working because al Sadr pulled back his militia, and we all know it. Even Stockula would know it, if he didn't have a biased agenda to fulfill.



Is the surge working for it's actual intent?

SockPuppet

SockPuppet

I'm lost
July 2006

JUL 20, 2008 07:42 PM

coyotemike said:
The surge is only working because al Sadr pulled back his militia, and we all know it. Even Stockula would know it, if he didn't have a biased agenda to fulfill.



Definitely.

Interesting to note, al-Sadr is not very pro-Iranian at all, for lots of family reasons IIRC. So the idea that the surge might be working against Iran doesn't really stack up either.

SockPuppet

SockPuppet

I'm lost
July 2006

JUL 20, 2008 07:43 PM

felony187 said:

coyotemike said:
The surge is only working because al Sadr pulled back his militia, and we all know it. Even Stockula would know it, if he didn't have a biased agenda to fulfill.



Is the surge working for it's actual intent?



I forget. What was its intent? Was one ever published? Stock?

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

Kearney, NE
May 2006

JUL 20, 2008 07:46 PM

felony187 said:

coyotemike said:
The surge is only working because al Sadr pulled back his militia, and we all know it. Even Stockula would know it, if he didn't have a biased agenda to fulfill.



Is the surge working for it's actual intent?



I'm not sure. But we haven't had an announcement in the news lately that the current month is the deadliest on record since Bush stood in front of the "Mission Accomplished" sign. I guess that counts as "success" . . . sort of.

FellOnEarth

FellOnEarth

Temecula, CA
April 2006

JUL 20, 2008 07:57 PM

So the surge has worked? The war is over? Whoo-hoo, yeah! Now lets get the fuck out...

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

Kearney, NE
May 2006

JUL 20, 2008 08:00 PM

FellOnEarth said:
So the surge has worked? The war is over? Whoo-hoo, yeah! Now lets get the fuck out...



We can't get out, because then the terrorists will have won.

But the surge worked, so the war must be over.

But if the war is over, then we can leave.

But if we leave, the terrorists will win.

But if we won the war, there aren't any more terrorists, because the surge worked.

But if there aren't any more terrorists, we should be able to bring the troops home.

But if we bring the troops home, the terrorists will have won . . .

s5

s5

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

JUL 20, 2008 08:18 PM

Even in the absolute best case scenario that "the surge worked", worked at what, exactly? At best, all you can say that Iraq is somewhat less violent now than before the surge.

But that still fails to justify the war. In the best case scenario, all we've done is make Iraq less broken and less fucked up than the amount we broke it and fucked it up. We still spent a ridiculous amount of our own money for no reason whatsoever, miring our country in debt for a generation, while China and the rest of the world laugh at our weakening power.

The surge doesn't make the non-existent WMDs magically appear. The surge doesn't undo Abu Ghraib. The surge doesn't give us back all the money we spent. The surge doesn't raise the dead soldiers and dead Iraqi civilians.

And yeah, like someone else said, if the surge really worked, then why are all the surge cheerleaders saying we have to stay in Iraq for another bazillion years? If it worked, then great, let's get the fuck out.

GrayRains

GrayRains

El Paso, TX
January 2008

JUL 20, 2008 09:22 PM

stockula said:

BlastProcessing said:
Link to the original piece, please.



http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2008/07/history-lesson-how-democrats-doubled.html

What's interesting is that Democrats are attacking the idea of drilling and developing domestic oil supplies with the same vehemence that they attacked the Surge: It just won't work, it's a mistake to even try, abandon all hope, we can't do it, surrender Dorothy. What's with this loser attitude?



Ummm, hey buddy, stop twisting reality around. Dems are not attacking the drilling for more oil, they are attacking how Big Oil are trying to gobble up all sorts of new areas to drill offshore, despite how they are not even using30% of the areas they can drill in right now.

If Big Oil wants to start drilling, they are more than free to do so, RIGHT NOW! Considering how much area they have not yet touched, why do they need more? They are pulling in record profits...

oh that's right, they want the areas that it is even cheaper to drill in so they can make even more money! My bad....

motorfirebox

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA
March 2004

JUL 20, 2008 10:14 PM

stockula said:
Of course, our enemies say the opposite: The real war was for Iraq


no shit the 'real' war is for Iraq. do you know why the real war is for Iraq? because we hung by the neck the only motherfucker in the region who could keep a bootheel on the motherfuckers we're have to fight now. it's simple math: if you have three guys that all hate each other, the smart guy is going to let the other two fight each other. that way, the smart guy doesn't have to fight, and his enemies get weaker.

instead of being the smart guy, we decided to curbstomp the guy who posed the smallest threat to us. do you understand that? do you understand that Iran was and is more dangerous than Saddam could ever dream of being? Saddam was an idiot and a thug. Iran is a god damn Mafia don. we used to have a leash on Iran. we used to have a stick we could shake at them. now, we have an Iran that a) hates us as much as ever, and b) doesn't have Saddam there to keep them in line.

so, fuck yeah Iraq's the real war. it's the real war because Iran--and every other anti-US faction in the region--wants it to be the real war. they want us to drain ourselves in Iraq, to get stuck there and get bloodied over and over again until we don't want to fight anymore. and when we don't want to fight anymore, they'll be free to do whatever the fuck they want to do.

but, hey, at least we got those Iraqi WMDs out of the picture, right? the mobile NBC weapons labs? the Iraqi support for Al Qaeda? whew, we're safe!

scylis

scylis

Anchorage, AK
November 2004

JUL 20, 2008 10:19 PM

coyotemike said:

FellOnEarth said:
So the surge has worked? The war is over? Whoo-hoo, yeah! Now lets get the fuck out...



We can't get out, because then the terrorists will have won.

But the surge worked, so the war must be over.

But if the war is over, then we can leave.

But if we leave, the terrorists will win.

But if we won the war, there aren't any more terrorists, because the surge worked.

But if there aren't any more terrorists, we should be able to bring the troops home.

But if we bring the troops home, the terrorists will have won . . .



Does not.... com-PUTE!! Does not... com-PUTE!! ERROR! ERROR!

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