NEWS: Just the Facts, Ma'am

No, I understood what you were saying; it was dearambellina's post I was referring to, bringing up having gone to a Catholic school as a reference to why she knew all kinds of pro-lifers. I know the church is against BC.

This is a plausible situation in a developed nation, but in a third world country where most people can't get their partner checked for AID's/HIV at the drop of a hat. So the American Government should encourage the use of Condoms in these countries just as much as abstinence, instead of using them as last resort ... i'm a making sense-ish?

I've always agreed with what Bitch_PhD writes and have always found her insightful. Some people don't and I just wonder: Where do you people think you are? What the fuck are you afraid of?

Keep it up lady.

I don't think being anti-abortion means that you are pro dead women. I think that's a bit exaggerated.

Women can always carry a pregnancy to full term and then put the baby up for adoption. This would be SAFER for a woman to whom abortion is not available legally, and then she wouldn't have to be a DEAD WOMAN.

Oh right, that might affect the woman's pride. Yeesh.

I'm pro-choice. If I got knocked up, I would get an abortion, most likely. Of course, I've been very sexually active for six years now, and I've managed not to get knocked up.

Making birth control more widely available would be VERY helpful, and abortion being legal is a good thing, but I don't necessarily think that for a pregnant woman that doesn't want a baby abortion is the only option. I think that pushing it as the only option once pregnant is just as bad as making abortion illegal.

Many childless couples would be happy to adopt that accident that many women (and young girls) are willing to risk their lives to get rid of.

I agree with all of the positions in the article; but I think that it could be potentially damaging to the "cause" as it were to paint the abortion question as being about stopping women from dying from doing something dangerous and illegal, as it essentially becomes a game of moral blackmail. Rather it should be about self determination- the ability to make the choice, hence the moniker "pro-choice." It's much firmer ground to be standing on.

But the statistics speak for themselves and do undeniably prove that pro-choice is the only sane option for a society that values human life.

I do appreciate all the facts and quotes about Planned Parenthood, great work on that and 110% support.

Not pro dead women per say, but it has to be acknowledged that "pro-life" must- as a consequence of the statistics presented- go along with an arbitrary or flawed perspective on the sanctity of human life as the "rights" of fetuses are placed above their mothers, while from the pro-choice perspective the playing field is even, even if the fetus doesn't get a "say" in the matter since choice implies that not getting one is as much of an option as getting one is. Which again, is proven by the fact that without organizations that provide choices like Planned Parenthood, there would be more abortions.

? the article does not in anyway suggest that pro choice is the best option for society. The article only says that not making abortion clinics illegal is wise and prudent...if you make them illegal, people will still do it anyway, and it is will revert to "back alley clinics" where the incidences of death/infection and serious injury are much higher. This article is not so much about pro life or pro choice...it is mostly about why abortion clinics should not be made illegal.

...i still can't believe you wrote that...that a sane society would surely be pro choice...a sane society is one that allows people have their opinions and does not force one particular one on to any one person...

So the fact that when abortion is illegal, women do in fact try to get abortions, and put themselves and their lives at risk, completely escaped your attention?

I mean seriously.

Did. You. Not. Get. That?

I wasn't trying to collectively bring Catholics into this, I was just saying that going to Catholic school is the reason I've known so many people who are pro-life. I'm well aware individuals of a religion hold individual beliefs (I am one of them). Sort of the reason I'm saying "pro dead women" is an unfair generalization. Different beliefs and intentions for different individuals of the same group.

Being anti-abortion, and fighting to have it banned, regardless of your intention, has the effect of leading to harm to women, including unintended deaths.

I might be pro-drink-driving because I think it's cool, but if it leads to people dying, then, to all intents and purposes, I'm pro-car-accident-deaths. Whether or not I ever wanted people to die.

Filthy consequentialist!

A pro-lifer could say the exact same thing to a pregnant woman who wants an abortion.

I think it's a ridiculous double standard to say that men should "man up" and deal with a baby they don't want, but women should be free to abort whenever they feel like it.

Mind you, I'm not against abortion at all. I just think your opinion is almost offensive in its wrongheadedness.

That kinds of sums up how i feel. Some of you seem too be oh so " Open Minded" For us all. Fuck why should any of us have too think if you know the answer. Anyway I found a shirt for you.

Unfortunatly, in PA where I now live, the law makers (or whoever decides these things) have made it next to impossible to recieve the services & Birth Control women need. Because of the high cost and distant location of the Planned Parenthood in the Pittsburgh area, not many women I know (myself included) qualify... So sadly, there is an abundance of babies born into "welfare homes' to mommies that don't want them, or have the means to take care of them...
I miss CA where you can any of those services free if you were in need....

Why is that ridiculous?

I agree. Wouldn't the world be a swell place if everybody accepted the consequences of their actions.

And I think it's a ridiculous double standard that babies get to grow in women's bodies, never men's.

It's scandalous, really. I'm considering suing nature.

I understand that in many developing nations giving a baby up for adoption isn't always an option, but in first world countries like the US, the UK, Canada, etc., if abortion were made illegal, there would still be the option of putting the baby up for adoption at birth. If women would still be willing to possibly kill themselves to save the hassle of carrying a child that they were foolish enough to conceive when there IS another option (and WERE options of birth control before they got knocked up), then They. Are. Idiots.

And now it's also a dead baby's body as well.

There is something inherently horrifying about abortion. Passing it off as easy a decision as "what to wear" today is deemphasizing the gravity of the choice.

No other animals intentionally abort their young from the womb.

Humans are disgusting.

But by all means, you have the choice to kill an unborn baby in this country.

That's just fucking ridiculous. First of all, I'm assuming as a grown and mature fucking human being, you'd be able to tell a guy to fuck off if he's trying to "persuade" you to do it bareback. Don't act like its always the guy convincing the innocent, impressionable girl that a condom just doesn't feel as good. Please.

And just so I understand this correctly, the "deal with the consequences" stance applies only to the males?. The woman gets knocked up, you deal with it for the rest of your life. Unless she doesn't feel like dealing with the consequence of her actions and gets an abortion. Nice.

I'm all about choice, but the notion of the guy just having to deal with whatever happens as if he has no stake in the situation is stupid.

You are right about one thing...abortion IS inherently horrifying. It must be a very painful decision to make...as well as having to live with that decision for the rest of your life. I can't imagine that any woman is happy about making that decision.

I fail to see, however, where people are attempting to pass off the decision to have an abortion as an easy one...much less equating it to a wardrobe decsion.

Finally...I find your comparison between humans & other animals to be pointless and irrelevant. So you say no other animal intentionally aborts their young from the womb...and view humans as disgusting for doing so. Yet...you completely ignore the fact that in the animal kingdom...parents abandon their young to die for any number of reasons. That's hardly an example to follow, wouldn't you say?

Holding animals to higher regard than humans in that respect is pretty flawed. Animals also eat their own feces...not to mention the young of other animals...so I fail to see how you can pay reverence to animals while denigrating humans based on that behavior.

So...humans are the only animal who intentionally abort their young. Humans also have opposable thumbs....and the written word. The list of differences between humans & animals is almost infinite...but I fail to see how that is relevant to the topic of abortion.


Your argument is made based on passion & opinion...and I venture a guess that there is a smidge of organized religion in there as well...when the topic of abortion requires reason & logic.

It is a medical procedure. While it may be an unpleasant one...it is still a medical procedure. You and others of your ilk attempt to cloud the issue by using terms like "murder", "dead babies", "kill" etc; instead of addressing the issue with reason & logic.

People are not going to stop having recreational sex. Ergo...unwanted pregnancies will continue to happen. How do you propose that we realistically deal with these unwanted pregnancies without the option of legal abortion?

I woud LOVE to see a world in which there were no unwanted pregnancies...but it's just not realistic.

If people would pull their heads out of their asses...and allow more aggressive sex education and wider distribution of birth control...you would see a decrease in unwanted pregnancies.

Unfortunately....their prudish & antiquated views on sexuality....coupled with their reliance on organized religion just won't let them free their heads from their aforementioned asses.

But no...my mistake...let them keep preaching abstainance and damning free-choice and hope the problem just goes away. We wouldn't want to have to pull our heads from the sand now...would we?