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Pete

Pete

United Kingdom
July 2004

JUN 29, 2007 12:47 PM

PatrickY said:

Look at mialbox
MIALBOX DOES NOT EXIST
...



Bwahaha smile

bedukay

bedukay

Endicott, NY
March 2003

JUN 29, 2007 12:52 PM

I have a dyslexic younger brother who never finished high school and never developed his reading and writing skills much at all until I set him up with the Star Wars Galaxies beta. Then because the social aspect of the game necessitated communication to get ahead his skills in those areas dramatically improved.

Dismissing "video games" are child's play is a huge mistake that is going to get worse with time when VR is more developed and "video games" become interactive multimedia art (like the one David Lynch tried to develop years ago: Woodcutters From Fiery Ships. Video games are among the most advanced applications on the home PC market what with their AIs, physics' modeling engines, anisotropic filtering, etc.

It's also my opinion that reaching people using the avenues developed most powerful general tool in the history of mankind that is has been and currently revolutionizing almost every economic sector is probably wise as well.

headtraumajr

headtraumajr

Boone, IA
February 2004

JUN 29, 2007 01:12 PM

PatrickY said:

PointBlank said:

Short said:

Video games get otherwise un-interested kids to read enormous amounts of text. .



What game are you playing? Grand Theft Encyclopedia?



Zork I.


Look at mialbox
MIALBOX DOES NOT EXIST

Look at mailbox
?AT

Look inside mail box
MAIL BOX DOES NOT EXIST

Loot inside mailbox
?LOOT

LOok inside mailbox
THE MAILBOX IS EMPTY

Fuck yourself
CANNOT DO THAT HERE






classic

LadyMaze

LadyMaze

I'm lost
July 2004

JUN 29, 2007 01:41 PM



Youth culture is a curious and fleeting thing--one day you're totally hep and the cat's pajamas, and then suddenly before you even know it you're entirely out-of-touch, utterly alone and unable to impress subordinates with your archaic talk of rolling for initiative and the Dewey decimal system. Then you become a librarian.



Ooookay, then. I'm young. I'm pretty in-touch with youth culture. And guess what? I'm a librarian!

And you know who else are librarians? Comic book geeks, zinesters, bleeding-heart liberals, tattooed weirdos (like me!), bloggers, gamers, and all sorts of other free-thinking, creative, (r)evolutionary people.


And you know what we've discovered?? A vast new truth: Libraries are not about books!

Amazing, but true! Libraries are about education AND entertainment. Libraries are about intellectual freedom and skill enhancement. Libraries are about life-long learning.

Does that mean books? Sure, of course it does! But it ALSO means *GASP* video games, and audiobooks, and DDR competitions where kids can dance off against librarians, and DVDS, and CDs, and MP3s, and magazines, and graphic novels, and even zines!

But you know what? Most of the digital natives out there, and apparently, the author of this article as well, seem to think that libraries are about books alone, and that librarians are all ancient, forbidding crones who can't tell HTML from HP Lovecraft.


Next time you want to write an article like this, Dictionary Girl, try doing a little bit of old-fashioned research and looking into all the new initiatives going on in the library world. You might be surprised by just how "hep" and "the cat's pajamas" many librarians really are.

Skywisdom

Skywisdom

Portland, OR
December 2005

JUN 29, 2007 03:29 PM

LadyStardust said:


But you know what? Most of the digital natives out there, and apparently, the author of this article as well, seem to think that libraries are about books alone, and that librarians are all ancient, forbidding crones who can't tell HTML from HP Lovecraft.




<MADNESS> Cthulu walks the earth. Unspeakable horror! </MADNESS>

joker_

joker_

Windsor, CA
October 2005

JUN 29, 2007 03:56 PM

Short said:

joker_c said:

iKitten said:
I cut my digital teeth on library computers way back when dinosaurs roamed the earth in the early ninties. I grew up gaming. I still play games, and recently I've even gotten into the "old fashioned" tabletop genre. I find this entire line of reasoning to be laughable at best.

This notion of "gaming skills" is disconcerting, as if they were a subset of abilities hitherto unknown to man, rather than merely applied techniques of problem solving, reflexes, and coordination. They're not foreign concepts to non-gamers, merely foreign applications.

You don't have to make things more accessible by "speaking the lingo." If anything, the effect is counterproductive, as you're now producing a mindset that the world will cater to ones needs when in fact it won't. It's equivalent to spoiling children.

The world is harsh and unforgiving of errors. To pretend and to teach otherwise is a mistake, and the youths taught in this manner will be unprepared in the face of someone willing to walk all over them.



After reading this, I've decided that I think this is an excellent idea. In the future when I'm hiring younger less experienced people, I would like to pay them less.



in case you've never been into the "real world", this is actually how it works out here. less experience = less pay. in case you were being sarcastic, my bad.



"real world" what the hell are you talking about?
I've been living in a quasi virtual Final Fantasy realm for years.

magpieboy

magpieboy

Costa Rica
June 2004

JUN 29, 2007 05:07 PM

kek

_DictionaryGirl_

_DictionaryGirl_

NEWSWIRE

San Diego, CA

JUN 29, 2007 05:42 PM

LadyStardust said:


Youth culture is a curious and fleeting thing--one day you're totally hep and the cat's pajamas, and then suddenly before you even know it you're entirely out-of-touch, utterly alone and unable to impress subordinates with your archaic talk of rolling for initiative and the Dewey decimal system. Then you become a librarian.



Ooookay, then. I'm young. I'm pretty in-touch with youth culture. And guess what? I'm a librarian!

And you know who else are librarians? Comic book geeks, zinesters, bleeding-heart liberals, tattooed weirdos (like me!), bloggers, gamers, and all sorts of other free-thinking, creative, (r)evolutionary people.


And you know what we've discovered?? A vast new truth: Libraries are not about books!

Amazing, but true! Libraries are about education AND entertainment. Libraries are about intellectual freedom and skill enhancement. Libraries are about life-long learning.

Does that mean books? Sure, of course it does! But it ALSO means *GASP* video games, and audiobooks, and DDR competitions where kids can dance off against librarians, and DVDS, and CDs, and MP3s, and magazines, and graphic novels, and even zines!

But you know what? Most of the digital natives out there, and apparently, the author of this article as well, seem to think that libraries are about books alone, and that librarians are all ancient, forbidding crones who can't tell HTML from HP Lovecraft.


Next time you want to write an article like this, Dictionary Girl, try doing a little bit of old-fashioned research and looking into all the new initiatives going on in the library world. You might be surprised by just how "hep" and "the cat's pajamas" many librarians really are.



Woahhhh there. shocked

Maybe my sarcasm meter was running a little off; I don't know, I'm no FearTheReaper. But I would just like to go on record as saying that I was kidding in that passage you quoted. One of the whole points of my article was that blatant attempts to "be hip with the kids" are annoying to me because they are born under the assumption that, for example, librarians have no current means to connect with those they are trying to help. Perhaps that's true of some people, but obviously it's a pretty broad generalization, and I have friends who work at the library who are definitely not out-of-touch grandmas but can still probably be effective at their jobs without making everything into a video game analogy.

That's all. Sorry if it came across wrong.

_DictionaryGirl_

_DictionaryGirl_

NEWSWIRE

San Diego, CA

JUN 29, 2007 05:48 PM

Short said:
I'm sorry, but what is the problem with this?

Video games get otherwise un-interested kids to read enormous amounts of text. They get kids to work on their math. Problem solving. Critical thinking. Hand-eye coordination.

Do they do these things better than some kid sitting around watching TV? Absolutely.

Hosting LAN parties creates a community, gets kids in a safe environment after hours, and gets kids who might not ordinarily into a library into one. Maybe they won't actually read any books, but maybe they will. And, if they were ever thinking about it, well hell, at least they'll be in the right place.

I don't give a crap if librarians want to tell kids that the dewy-decimal system is a NSA secret and they could be deported for learning it. If it makes them want to learn, then it worked. Besides, they'll figure out they were getting bullshitted pretty quick.

Most of the people that I know, who know computers, or video games, or cooking, or pretty much anything practical are good with (whatever) because they figured it out. They got in there, figured out what they could, and then got some books or somebody smarter then they were to help them. Its called "learning", and it should be encouraged no matter what form it takes.

edited for spelling.



I really do think you have a lot of good ideas and applications here, that would be really cool if we were talking about public libraries. Especially the safe-environment-after-hours LAN parties. The problem here is that what the ALA was focusing on are college libraries. You would think that it would not be so much college librarians' problem to get uninterested freshmen into reading, or keep them in a safe environment after hours?

Though a LAN party might be better than a frat party. biggrin

LadyMaze

LadyMaze

I'm lost
July 2004

JUN 29, 2007 06:19 PM

What you don't seem to be understanding, Dictionary Girl, is that it's not about "blatant attempts to be hip with the kids;" it's about demonstrating to the kids that libraries--and even librarians!-- are ALREADY hip! A lot of people don;t know that we are, you know. We have a ridiculously strong, pervasive stereotype to fight against...the librarian as bun-wearing, bespectacled, tweed-skirted, pearl-wearing, 60-something frigid spinster, and the library as dusty, dead-silent, dull-as-dirt temple of dead knowledge. Anything and everything we can do to get people through the freaking door is something we should at least consider! My original points still stand here. Some librarians are young and hip, and libraries are not dusty book vaults!

And YES, all of these initiatives still apply to academic libraries! I've known FAR too many undergrads who've never stepped foot inside the library unless they got caught in the rain or got lost...and why? They think they can just use Google for everything...and anytime they have to use a book, they're much more likely to go to B&N or Borders first...and all because of the negative stereotypes that swirl around the library.

Again, it's not about "getting uninterested freshman into reading," it's about getting those freshman into THE LIBRARY itself, by making the library a fun and interesting place to be...that oh by the way, is also useful.


I still think that before you go around heaping sarcasm upon initiatives put forth by an organization that only has good works in mind, you should do a little bit of research and try to understand just why it is that the organization feels the need to even put together such an initiative, and understand all the factors at play. Criticizing librarians en masse for trying to help people... just because you've decided you disapprove of the way they're going about doing so...is just not cool.

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